Author Topic: Choosing ships from an ARS.  (Read 2968 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2010, 01:46:21 pm »
Well, I appreciate the arguments here, but I've been through this discussion in the past, and am not keen to go through it again.  I will say that a simple option of "show ARS unlock" would not be very valuable, because all ARSes in a map game unlock the same thing, by design, until you unlock one ARS.  What I mean is:

1. At the start of a map, there are five ARSes.  They will all unlock (for example) space planes, no matter which ARS you capture first.
2. Now there are four ARSes.  They will all unlock (for eample) tanks, no matter which ARS you capture next.
3. And so on, through the five unlocks.

That's fundamentally incompatible with a quick option to just show what each one would unlock, and seeing what the "next" option is also wouldn't be useful because you don't know what the "next next" option will be, etc.

From my line of thinking, I've already put in a compromise here in terms of adding fabricators and other capturables -- this was discussed at length in the past -- and I'm not keen to go through a second round of compromises as I feel like the goals have been met.  I understand that everyone's not to agree, but that's going to be true of any design decision to some extent.  There's not a lot more I can add on the subject beyond what I've already posted, I think, and I'm fairly certain that there isn't an argument that's likely to convince me to change this core mechanic, either.

superking, your example makes sense, but speaking to it specifically: if you can just tailor your entire core force to exactly what the AI has at any given time, that's an enormous advantage and really changes a ton of the mechanics of the game.  Just refer to your spreadsheet and figure out the best unit to capture for dealing with the most threatening enemy, and then you're done.  Instead it's randomized and you have to figure out to work with that stuff in the scenario as it currently stands.  However, recognizing that that might sometimes lead you to a brick wall, there's a lot of supplementary stuff that you can directly see (starships, turrets, the DEF tab, fabricators, other capturables), and which lets you avoid that brick wall while not completely removing the challenge of figuring out clever solutions based on the unique current ship mix.  That's why the supplementary ships, are the ones that are visible, rather than the core ARS techs.
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Offline Ktoff

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2010, 02:17:33 pm »
This is indeed incompatible...

On a different note: Are the unlocks in any way related to what the AI has? (Just the other day playing against 'The tank' and i don't remember, guess what the first unlock was :-) )

Offline x4000

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2010, 02:21:51 pm »
On a different note: Are the unlocks in any way related to what the AI has? (Just the other day playing against 'The tank' and i don't remember, guess what the first unlock was :-) )

Nope, the AI and player unlocks are entirely unrelated to one another -- coincidences do tend to happen, though!  Someone else was noting that often the ARSes are on upgraded planets (Mark III or higher), but that's also coincidental. :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2010, 04:40:12 pm »
The brutal one is when an ARS is on the Dyson planet ;)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2010, 04:51:13 pm »
The brutal one is when an ARS is on the Dyson planet ;)

Quite so.
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Offline RCIX

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2010, 10:51:05 pm »
Something no one has really brought up well is the fact that this is a similar option to the "let me pick what sorts of bonus ship i get in a given position": If that was added, people would always use it to select their favorite ships, and then they wouldn't explore new ships, fall into a rut, and quit the game. X has pointed this out in the past (it being a variety option). No one complains in card games when you have to deal hands instead of picking them out...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 10:54:27 pm by RCIX »
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Offline superking

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2010, 12:25:03 am »
Something no one has really brought up well is the fact that this is a similar option to the "let me pick what sorts of bonus ship i get in a given position": If that was added, people would always use it to select their favorite ships, and then they wouldn't explore new ships, fall into a rut, and quit the game. X has pointed this out in the past (it being a variety option). No one complains in card games when you have to deal hands instead of picking them out...

erm

dont people just use the 'new seed' button until the ship they desire is included in the map selection? I'm pretty sure they do..!

Offline RCIX

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2010, 01:06:45 am »
But then you don't get an ideal position, so if you want a good position you may have to sacrifice your ideal ship. Thus, variety!
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rubikscube

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2010, 06:23:03 pm »
there is never an ideal starting place, since most starting maps the planets you can choose are connected, it doesn't take long to get to the idea tactical 1 wormhole planet

Offline RCIX

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2010, 06:30:08 pm »
there is never an ideal starting place, since most starting maps the planets you can choose are connected, it doesn't take long to get to the idea tactical 1 wormhole planet
True, but you might have to take one that is non-ideal for the map if you want the "good ship".
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rubikscube

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2010, 06:36:10 pm »
I always do, starting location means nothing much, anyways, hardcore players pick random don't they?

Offline RCIX

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2010, 06:41:59 pm »
Then you need to get out more ;)
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rubikscube

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2010, 06:46:28 pm »
i do not understand ???

Offline RCIX

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2010, 07:06:54 pm »
i do not understand ???
You should pick more precarious positions to play in (such as ones with more wormholes and such) :)
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rubikscube

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Re: Choosing ships from an ARS.
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2010, 09:14:49 pm »
well, i can always conquer that planet, but choosing a planet with many wormholes sounds fun