Chokepoint Balance

[Diazo]

I'm not sure about the AIP on CS death.

This would just encourage chokepointing more as if you get punished for a CS dying, you're never going to build one that you might lose.

And for lattice maps (so for me), it is pretty much a non-starter. I am not at home to check, but if I only lose only 15 CS in a game I suspect that was a really great game, I'm pretty sure I lose a lot more then that. The number of systems lattice forces you to expose to the AI spreads our defenses thin enough it is going to happen.

However, lattice is an outlier and you are talking about making it optional and more options are generally a good thing so I'm not sure.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, a recurring theme is that "anything that makes the game harder with chokepoints, makes it even worse without them"

Not 100% applicable, but pretty close.

[Hearteater]

Diazo, on the last Lattice game you won, how many CS did you lose and how long did the game take?  Under Stats, you can get the count from I believe Types by Player and look for Command Station (that way you don't need to add up for all separate CS types).

As for scrapping CS: I'd say if you could make it so building a new CS while the old one still existed didn't give AIP, that would be perfect.

As for +2/+4/+6/+8/+10...that would be fine.  But if the setting is an explicit thing, like adding X AIP, then it can have whatever number of choices is appropriate and reasonable.  When it is arbitrary settings with a lot of behind the scenes effects, sometimes less is more.

[eRe4s3r]

You can replace it by bringing a new constructor, no need to destroy the CS.

Wha... lol I never noticed that. Scrapping is more fun though!

[LordSloth]

Of my previous brainstorming session, I do like the idea of a gravity command station, after we get enough feedback on the current state of gravity. To flesh it out a bit more:

A gravity command station would be unlocked similar to a warp jammer command. It would affect the entire system, human and AI like a gravity drill, but it would have resource cost instead of income. An odd fit for a whipping boy, it would be a horrible choice for an actual chokepoint as it would very effectively isolate your fleet from your empire. As a target, it would add 1-2 minutes to the transit time through a system, with the point being solely to buy reaction time. I could imagine putting these up around my flanks before a CPA, or in the presence of hybrid hives.

Opinions?

[orzelek]

Of my previous brainstorming session, I do like the idea of a gravity command station, after we get enough feedback on the current state of gravity. To flesh it out a bit more:

A gravity command station would be unlocked similar to a warp jammer command. It would affect the entire system, human and AI like a gravity drill, but it would have resource cost instead of income. An odd fit for a whipping boy, it would be a horrible choice for an actual chokepoint as it would very effectively isolate your fleet from your empire. As a target, it would add 1-2 minutes to the transit time through a system, with the point being solely to buy reaction time. I could imagine putting these up around my flanks before a CPA, or in the presence of hybrid hives.

Opinions?

Logistic command station already does the slowdown. In different magnitudes based on Mk level currently. And produces stuff. What would be the difference?

PS.
And per planet turret caps were railroaded again. Sad panda

[keith.lamothe]

PS.
And per planet turret caps were railroaded again. Sad panda

Another AI plot to compromise human defenses, foiled by forum displeasure.

[LordSloth]

Well, a logistics station does a percentage based slowdown. Gravity is ceiling based. You'll see the difference in fast ships such as Raid Starships, although I'm not certain that is a huge endorsement or anything. Try a cluster map against a gravity drill AI to see my inspiration, though I haven't been able to mess around with the new gravity.

[Oralordos]

Ugh, my current game is currently a cluster game with a gravity drill. I'm trying to look to see if there is anything with gravity immunity left.
One bright spot is that there is a Tackle Drone Fab within three hops of my homeworld. One bad spot was the raid engine in two hops from my homeworld, luckily without a grav drill in-between.

[Cinth]

PS.
And per planet turret caps were railroaded again. Sad panda

Another AI plot to compromise human defenses, foiled by forum displeasure.

I think that it was more that this kind of change hurts the was a lot of folks play with fortress worlds and heavy chokes.

For this to work for us the caps would have to be absurdly large.  For instance, my fortress lines are set up to take out 1,000,000 firepower exos.  That takes pretty much every turret and defensive structure I can unlock and puts them in one system.

I haven't seen a suggestion for caps that doesn't potentially kill off the way I play right now (the way that's fun for me).

[orzelek]

PS.
And per planet turret caps were railroaded again. Sad panda

Another AI plot to compromise human defenses, foiled by forum displeasure.

I think that it was more that this kind of change hurts the was a lot of folks play with fortress worlds and heavy chokes.

For this to work for us the caps would have to be absurdly large.  For instance, my fortress lines are set up to take out 1,000,000 firepower exos.  That takes pretty much every turret and defensive structure I can unlock and puts them in one system.

I haven't seen a suggestion for caps that doesn't potentially kill off the way I play right now (the way that's fun for me).

As I was proposing add some kind of control structure with galaxy limited scope that would up the planetary cap for 1 planet to current levels (assuming this is not 100h job;) ). And you get your choke point in exactly same way it is now with one additional click to build said structure.

One potential issue I see with this is that it would be hard to decide which turrets to burn when this control structure would be scrapped. I'm assuming it could be in the cloaked/tachyon invincible area to prevent it's death through more mundane means.

[Hearteater]

There's always the Fire Control booster that buffs X turrets in a system, but is itself limited like Mini-Forts.  So for maximum turret firepower you'd want to spread your turrets out over multiple systems, but nothing would change in a single system besides 50-100 of your turrets would do double damage (obviously this would need to stack with Military CS boosts or turrets would need to be immune to all other munitions boosts).  This is the best my search-fu came up with, though I'm sure there was more discussion of this and several variants.

[keith.lamothe]

There's always the Fire Control booster that buffs X turrets in a system, but is itself limited like Mini-Forts.  So for maximum turret firepower you'd want to spread your turrets out over multiple systems, but nothing would change in a single system besides 50-100 of your turrets would do double damage (obviously this would need to stack with Military CS boosts or turrets would need to be immune to all other munitions boosts).  This is the best my search-fu came up with, though I'm sure there was more discussion of this and several variants.

Yea, and in that thread a couple posts before you linked to the "fire control" thread: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10143.0.html

I'd still like to do something like that, but ultimately I'm not going to drag folks kicking and screaming into it.  There are other areas the game that can be improved without ripping out as much hair (yours and/or mine).

[Radiant Phoenix]

PS.
And per planet turret caps were railroaded again. Sad panda

Another AI plot to compromise human defenses, foiled by forum displeasure.

What if you made it an option in map generation, and gave people a chance to try it out?

[chemical_art]

Keith, if you added the fire control like you did the mini forts in that you research them, i doubt.there would be much kicking or.screaming. It doesnt hurt any defensive.strategies.