Botnet Golem and Zombies Poll

[Vyndicu]

I am trying to see what the entire community think of botnet golem as they stand right now. Do we need to buff them? Nerf? Change?

Personally I would vote for garage because of three reasons:

I usually find that botnet golem doesn't last long in frontline battle to grab those zombies especially in heavy superweapon games. As I like to play that mode alot, I was wondering about other modes. Have anyone found a serious use for them beside other golems?

I don't really like the mole rat mallet popping in one by one behavior of zombies and I think that over long-term degrade either by death or too much idling while patrol backwater especially on large maps (120 Fallen Spire campaign suffer from latter one the most I think).

If you lose all zombies and you would have to put your botnet golem closer to frontline to get more zombies. Botnet Golem is an "irreplacement" source that may not be present on Mapgen. It doesn't help that the only other source of zombies is unreliable as well (insanity inducer module for champion).


Do you think "zombies construction shipyard" will be a good feature to have? Or should we create another shiptype whose solo purpose is to create more zombies? What are other idea you have?

[Draco18s]

I haven't turned on the Botnet golem in the options for quite a while.  So "never take it out of the garage" is kind of appropriate.

[Aklyon]

I usually have the botnet golem on, but he tends to play goalie on the defensive front line, not on the offense.

[Kahuna]

Haven't used any Superweapons since Exos became outrageous. Playing without Superweapons is easier than playing with them. And Botnet Golem is absolutely useless vs Exos. It would basically disable CPAs though.
...hmm I should try using Superweapons again. It has been a  long time and a lot has changed.. Mark I-IV Bombers, Zenith Chameleon and HBCs to counter exos.. Would need to get all of that before the first exo though...

[Qatu]

Haven't used any Superweapons since Exos became outrageous. Playing without Superweapons is easier than playing with them. And Botnet Golem is absolutely useless vs Exos. It would basically disable CPAs though.
...hmm I should try using Superweapons again. It has been a  long time and a lot has changed.. Mark I-IV Bombers, Zenith Chameleon and HBCs to counter exos.. Would need to get all of that before the first exo though...

 It's not enough, only spirecraft and gravity can deal with those kind of exos at your difficulty level, and it's too much work for not enough fun. Don't burn yourself off the game!

 For me the botnet is an almost permanently disabled option because I strongly dislike exos, and without exos the botnet makes losing almost impossible as long as it stays on defense. One way or the other, it makes the game less fun, so whenever I try it again, I end up just abandoning the game after a while and statring another without it.

[Shrugging Khan]

Over here, we're using the Botnet Golem to quickly pop into a system, zombify a bunch of enemy fleet ships after the AI has wasted its first volley on our fleet, and retreat it immediately before they reload. Also works to clear out AI fleet ships surrounding guard posts, when the stars align and there's nothing to stop the Golem.

So while we do take it out of the garage, we only give it tasks it can actually handle...which isn't much. The zombies themselves are absolutely laughable, coasting into enemy systems one by one to slowly trickle into the reprisal pool; and when the Devourer Golem swings about, those previously impressive-looking Zombie patrols just disappear in a flash.

All things considered, it's not worth the trouble. I like it in theory, and it can be used to some effect during early and parts of mid-game, but later on and especially towards the end it's just plain useless.

[Kahuna]

Haven't used any Superweapons since Exos became outrageous. Playing without Superweapons is easier than playing with them. And Botnet Golem is absolutely useless vs Exos. It would basically disable CPAs though.
...hmm I should try using Superweapons again. It has been a  long time and a lot has changed.. Mark I-IV Bombers, Zenith Chameleon and HBCs to counter exos.. Would need to get all of that before the first exo though...

 It's not enough, only spirecraft and gravity can deal with those kind of exos at your difficulty level, and it's too much work for not enough fun. Don't burn yourself off the game!

 For me the botnet is an almost permanently disabled option because I strongly dislike exos, and without exos the botnet makes losing almost impossible as long as it stays on defense. One way or the other, it makes the game less fun, so whenever I try it again, I end up just abandoning the game after a while and statring another without it.

Yeah I feel the same

[Draco18s]

Haven't used any Superweapons since Exos became outrageous. Playing without Superweapons is easier than playing with them. And Botnet Golem is absolutely useless vs Exos. It would basically disable CPAs though.
...hmm I should try using Superweapons again. It has been a  long time and a lot has changed.. Mark I-IV Bombers, Zenith Chameleon and HBCs to counter exos.. Would need to get all of that before the first exo though...

 It's not enough, only spirecraft and gravity can deal with those kind of exos at your difficulty level, and it's too much work for not enough fun. Don't burn yourself off the game!

 For me the botnet is an almost permanently disabled option because I strongly dislike exos, and without exos the botnet makes losing almost impossible as long as it stays on defense. One way or the other, it makes the game less fun, so whenever I try it again, I end up just abandoning the game after a while and statring another without it.

This.
Even when playing with the other golems, I opt for the not-exo levels.

[Aklyon]

I'm also using the not-exo levels.

[Draco18s]

Just for added info:

The last time I used exo-waves for options (aside from LotS campaign) was waaay back before the 1-10 breakdown, maybe even pre-easy/medium/hard.  But at the time, even playing 7.6, I felt that the exos completely stagnated the mid-game.  Right when I'd be ready to punch the AI in the face and take some more territory I'd have an inbound exo only 20-30 minutes out, making it completely non-viable to go on the attack, as I'd have to pull out early to deal with the exo, assuming I lost exactly 0 ships (as I needed my whole fleet to handle the exo).

Mind, a lot has changed since then, but my perceptions of the exo mechanic hasn't: the golems are still not sufficient toys to deal with the exos they create (and you get exos regularly, regardless of how many golems you have), spirecraft even less so.  Botnet not at all.

The LotS campaign is really the only place I feel the exos are warranted and sufficiently balanced: they spawn on a fixed trigger (acquire shard) or after you have a couple cities (and generally a city and the units they produce are capable of holding off the attack).

[TechSY730]

Although I do not think exos are overpowered, I would agree with then sentiment that maybe sulerweapon exos need a nerf and maybe normal waves a bit of a buff. The discrepancy between the two is rather jarring at the moment. Too jarring, IMHO, to the point where it starts removing some of the fun of super weapons.

It also might be interesting to see notably weaker exos that come more often.

[Vyndicu]

Although I do not think exos are overpowered, I would agree with then sentiment that maybe sulerweapon exos need a nerf and maybe normal waves a bit of a buff. The discrepancy between the two is rather jarring at the moment. Too jarring, IMHO, to the point where it starts removing some of the fun of super weapons.

It also might be interesting to see notably weaker exos that come more often.

There are exotic AI type that you may want to look at. It does mean you deal with less waves either way.

As for changing exo-wave with respect to superweapon golems and spirecraft; Interesting idea but the problem is how do we tune them down just for those only while keeping the strength where they are now with respect to LoTS campaign?

edit: correction

[Aklyon]

I don't think I've seen it described as FotS before, that campaign get all sorts of acroynyms it seems.

[Vyndicu]

I don't think I've seen it described as FotS before, that campaign get all sorts of acroynyms it seems.

I meant to type LoTS for Light of the Spire somehow F got in there somewhere.

[MaxAstro]

I find the botnet golem extremely powerful on wave defense - it can solo zombie-vulnerable waves of virtually any size and gives you a nice little cache of zombies to play with, too.

On the flip swide, it is almost by definition near useless vs exos and on the offense.  I don't know if that is a bad thing - I've always just assumed that was the intended role of the thing.

I do use it almost every game, but I rarely turn on its personal exo; one source of golem exos is enough for me.  And I definitely only use it for wave defense.  It's nice being able to trivialize 50%+ of waves...