Bonus Ship Ommission File

[Wingflier]

As I was considering starting a game lately, I was looking through all the bonus ships, and realizing how underpowered some of them were compared to others.

Luckily for me, I get to choose which one I start with, but what I get from ARS Unlocks, and what the AI Picks, can have a hugely (positive or negative) impact on the game.  If the bonus ships were balanced better, it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but until the hull type and armor rework happens, which may not be for another year or so, I had an idea.

I was wondering what people would think about having a text file with all the bonus ship types listed (just like the "AI Personality Type" file), that allowed you to remove bonus ship types you didn't want to see in the game.  Obviously if you like all the bonus ships you don't have to touch it, but for the people who want a more balanced experience, this could be a good alternative for now.

What do you guys think?

[LordSloth]

Preferably, it would exclude the ship from the AI as well?

When it comes to selecting bonus ships, I'm fine with the variety as well as ship design hacking. That said, I'd happily include a one-line file: Tackle Drone Launchers

[Wingflier]

It would exclude it from the AI unless it starts with that ship type as part of its "Personality".

[TechSY730]

Preferably, it would exclude the ship from the AI as well?

When it comes to selecting bonus ships, I'm fine with the variety as well as ship design hacking. That said, I'd happily include a one-line file: Tackle Drone Launchers

I don't feel that they are OP enough that I would just give up if the AI got them, I would agree that they are OP now. Not game-breakingly so, but OP for certain.

Back on topic, I don't really feel that there any ships that I would rather just flat out not see, due to either OPness, UPness, or "annoying to deal with"-ness, so I can't really speak for or against this bonus ship type exclusion filter type thing. Some ships may be off, but I don't see any fleet ship types that are "game-breakingly" off from the "balance target".

That said, I usually restart if the AI gets their hands on Sentinal frigates, Snipers, or Z bombards as one of their first ships (as they drastically change up the way I must manage my early-mid game fleet to keep them effective, in ways that are not fun to me), but I wouldn't quit or get really frustrated if an AI got them as one of their later bonus unlocks.

[Kahuna]

As I was considering starting a game lately, I was looking through all the bonus ships, and realizing how underpowered some of them were compared to others.

I have said this before and will it again:

Underpowered ships:
Deflector Drone
Teleport Raider
Infiltrator

Somewhat underpowered ships:
Grenade Launcher
Electric Shuttle
Spire Mini Ram
Autocannon Minipod
Raider
Electric Bomber
Spire Teleporting Leech

Overpowered ships:
Tackle Drone Launcher
Spire Blade Spawner
Spire Maw

Somewhat overpowered ships:
Shield Bearer
Zenith Beam Frigate
Zenith Bombard
Munitions Booster

What do you guys think?

Good idea.

I don't feel that they are OP enough that I would just give up if the AI got them, I would agree that they are OP now. Not game-breakingly so, but OP for certain.

Tackle Drone launchers are the reason will never play with Complex ship settings when Ancient Shadows is enabled. Zenith Paralyzers paralyze 1 ship at a time. Why Tackle Drone Launchers have to have to insane range and tractor million ships 10 light years away every second?
EDIT: I'd reduce the amount of each drone tractors and make the drones' range shorter. Atm they move so fast you can actually push AIs ships away from the.... planet border? Out of the BIG circle so they move reeeaally slowly and can't get back into the fight.

[KDR_11k]

Somewhat underpowered ships:
Flagship

Am I confused or you? Flagships are the most basic starships, right?

[Kahuna]

Somewhat underpowered ships:
Flagship

Am I confused or you? Flagships are the most basic starships, right?

There's no reason to unlock more Flagships over Zenith Starships. Sure Flagship has bonus vs Polycrystal but it also has Heavy hull and very short range. Also Fighters were buffed so they can kill polycrystals. And a cap of MarkI and II Flagships can't even attack boost 90 Missile Turrets. And even if they could the attack boost is quite small. Oh and Zenith Starships have more health.

[KDR_11k]

I thought we're only talking about bonus ships here.

[Draco18s]

Underpowered ships:
Deflector Drone
Teleport Raider
Infiltrator

You forgot Etherjet Tractors.  They're underpowered in the player's hands, due to the inability to get them out of the combat zone if they've tractored something or vice versa.

In the AI's hands, they're amazing because it can manage them on an individual level.

[Kahuna]

Underpowered ships:
Deflector Drone
Teleport Raider
Infiltrator

You forgot Etherjet Tractors.  They're underpowered in the player's hands, due to the inability to get them out of the combat zone if they've tractored something or vice versa.

In the AI's hands, they're amazing because it can manage them on an individual level.

Oh yes you're right. I forgot EtherJets because the Thief AI has a bad habit of sending 700 EtherJets and then dragging away my whole fleet
EDIT: HMmm.. I just checked the Wiki. A cap of EtherJets costs only 35280. For that price they're quite good. They're very fragile though.

[keith.lamothe]

You forgot Etherjet Tractors.  They're underpowered in the player's hands, due to the inability to get them out of the combat zone if they've tractored something or vice versa.

In the AI's hands, they're amazing because it can manage them on an individual level.

I'm not sure if this will make you happy or sad, but there is a "Mobile Tractors With Full Load Rally" toggle, and combined with a rally post you can probably get most of the behavior you're wanting there.

As far as an omission file to avoid underpowered bonus types, how about we just fix the fact that there are underpowered bonus types instead?   6.0 is certainly much better than 5.0 in regards to bonus ships being useful, and 5.0 was a lot better than 4.0 in that regard too.  I see no reason to think it won't continue to improve.  Though part of making sure that it doesn't result in just changing what is OP/UP is looking for at least some kind of consensus about what really needs the changes, otherwise things tend to get too slanted by individual experience or assertion.

Also, while ARS unlocks can be painful if it gives you something on the low end, with ship-design-hacking you generally won't get 3 choices you just can't stand.  Not ideal, but it's a long way from where it used to be.

[Draco18s]

You forgot Etherjet Tractors.  They're underpowered in the player's hands, due to the inability to get them out of the combat zone if they've tractored something or vice versa.

In the AI's hands, they're amazing because it can manage them on an individual level.

I'm not sure if this will make you happy or sad, but there is a "Mobile Tractors With Full Load Rally" toggle, and combined with a rally post you can probably get most of the behavior you're wanting there.

Except that two things:

1) The ship still remains in my selection.
and
2) When given a move order and it already has a tractored unit, it will not retreat again, even after it finishes moving.

[Kahuna]

As far as an omission file to avoid underpowered bonus types, how about we just fix the fact that there are underpowered bonus types instead?

Yes!

6.0 is certainly much better than 5.0 in regards to bonus ships being useful, and 5.0 was a lot better than 4.0 in that regard too.  I see no reason to think it won't continue to improve.

Sure! You guys have been busy with Ancient Shadows. Now that it has been released will there be more buff/nerf polls? Those were good.

Also, while ARS unlocks can be painful if it gives you something on the low end, with ship-design-hacking you generally won't get 3 choices you just can't stand.  Not ideal, but it's a long way from where it used to be.

How about a cross planetary hacker which can be unlocked with Knowledge. It could only hack adjacent planets. Zombie Bots would spawn on the planet being hacked by the player and then they would attack.. like zombies have a bad habit to do. But as a side effect the amount of ZomBots spawned would be higher than when hacking "normally". Building one would also cost more than the normal hacker.
Oohh yes! I got exited now!

[keith.lamothe]

Except that two things:

1) The ship still remains in my selection.
and
2) When given a move order and it already has a tractored unit, it will not retreat again, even after it finishes moving.

Ok; the second point I don't think could really be changed without it causing a lot of "I gave you a move order! Why did you ignore it!" situations.

The first point could be changed.  In theory through yet another toggle though I'm not sure that's a good idea.  If people in general want that toggle to remove the tractoring ship from your selection at that time, I can make it do that.  But is that what's wanted?

Sure! You guys have been busy with Ancient Shadows. Now that it has been released will there be more buff/nerf polls? Those were good.

Yes, we'll resume having those after I'm reasonably certain there won't need to be an emergency official patch to something in 6.0 (nothing nearly that bad yet; one crash report but it was very nebulous and looks like it may have been machine-related), so probably the week of the 29th.  I also need to finish adding a few more eye types to address the AI Eye's winning that last nerf poll, first, so I don't still have a backlog of buff/nerf poll results before starting the next poll.

How about a cross planetary hacker which can be unlocked with Knowledge. It could only hack adjacent planets. Zombie Bots would spawn on the planet being hacked by the player and then they would attack.. like zombies have a bad habit to do. But as a side effect the amount of ZomBots spawned would be higher than when hacking "normally". Building one would also cost more than the normal hacker.
Oohh yes! I got exited now!

I... uh, sorry, that sounds a lot more complicated (for me and the players) than it needs to be   Tell you what: if folks around here generally want something like that, sure, I can figure it out, but I'm not sure there would be a lot of support for it.

[Mánagarmr]

How about a cross planetary hacker which can be unlocked with Knowledge. It could only hack adjacent planets. Zombie Bots would spawn on the planet being hacked by the player and then they would attack.. like zombies have a bad habit to do. But as a side effect the amount of ZomBots spawned would be higher than when hacking "normally". Building one would also cost more than the normal hacker.
Oohh yes! I got exited now!

I...
uh...
...what?
...I don't...

No.