Author Topic: Assault Transport Oversight?  (Read 20832 times)

Offline WeaponMaster

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Assault Transport Oversight?
« on: April 12, 2015, 01:46:44 am »
Foreword to X4000/Kieth: Sorry this isn't a Mantis report, but I can't seem to figure out that site for the life of me.

     Assault transports have a tendency to not update their shot count when you unload units from them, so if you were to load up 200 units and then drop them immediately you essentially get a 1.2k dps starship with a scout hull. In the early game, a full ship cap is extremely powerful for clearing planets up to about 3 hops away with little effort. The shot count isn't stored in a save so you end up needing to "reload" your transports between sessions.

     Of course I will be sad to see my favorite starship reduced to being an actual transport, but I always feel guilty using this tactic because I know it isn't intended. On a side note, I haven't checked this behavior with AI carriers (mostly because they tend to just deploy as soon as I send in any ship), so maybe check if those update when ships die too.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2015, 06:08:44 am »
Hello.

I don't understand clearly what bugs you with mantis. Joke aside, the site itself is here. I think you must be logged in to post an issue/suggestion. I don't remember if your forum login/password works for it or if you need to create a new account on mantis. Then you can click "report an issue" and fill in the form.

Hope this helped. Let me know.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline WeaponMaster

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2015, 06:18:25 pm »
Well I do have an account from when I made one way before the first zenith expansion, but the problem is I don't remember the password or username (meaning I cant do an account recovery because I dont know the username). The thing that I didn't get was that the site makes me think that I can anonymously post there but I could never find the option.

Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2015, 06:39:48 pm »
Hi Weaponmaster -- This one's a known bug, I remember finding a thread on it while forum trawling once.  Not sure if there's a formal Mantis bug report open for it, but it's come up on a number of occasions in the past year.
Infiltrating hostile AI networks to rewrite reality.

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Offline Traveller

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 02:26:14 pm »
I'm still kind of amazed how overpowered assault transports are, even without the bug.  I think I noticed it while playing but didn't think much of it, because mostly I've been keeping 2000 ships loaded in my transports all the time.  I swear, these things seem more effective than bombers against shields...

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 05:45:14 pm »
Yep. I just refrain to use them. I feel better using interesting strategies that push my skill to its edge. I noticed it on my last AAR: the Assault Transport resolved a problem that one nuke, one EMP, one armored and some lightning plus a whole endgame fleet was unable to solve. I know the point of the game is to use good weapon against precise problem, but there... I feel ATransports proved they're a too good solution to a too wide problem.

I think that more than a bugfix, the ATransport deserves a good revamp.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline damiac

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 02:57:15 pm »
My 7/7 and 8/8 wins were totally won because of assault transports.  They should cost like 20,000K because they're just ridiculous.  They are virtually indestructable, if you don't do anything crazy, and they have incredible offense.  Add the bug on top of all that, and I can understand how some people just don't use them. 

Offline Traveller

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 04:27:03 pm »
How about this.

Transport upgrades:
+Stealth 3000K
+Heal contained ships 2000K
+Guns 3000K and smaller than they are now.

Or...something.  Maybe unlock ATrans with one of those for that cost, and have to add on the other features.  Certainly you wouldn't want to apply these to the base transports, because a cap > 10 is probably OP no matter what, and you do still want to have >10 basic transports.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2015, 04:34:23 pm »
How about this.

Transport upgrades:
+Stealth 3000K
+Heal contained ships 2000K
+Guns 3000K and smaller than they are now.

Or...something.  Maybe unlock ATrans with one of those for that cost, and have to add on the other features.  Certainly you wouldn't want to apply these to the base transports, because a cap > 10 is probably OP no matter what, and you do still want to have >10 basic transports.
How should this work? Making assault transports modular? otherwise it wouldn't happen.

Offline Arc-3N-4B

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2015, 05:40:12 pm »
Mk1 Assault Transport (3,000 K?) - As regular transport, but with weaker guns than the current Assault Transport
Mk2 Assault Transport (2,000 K?) - Also has instant unload and heals ships
Mk3 Assault Transport (3,000 K?) - Also has cloaking. Basically the current Assault Transport but with weaker guns.

?
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Offline Traveller

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2015, 05:49:50 pm »
Yeah, that seems like a reasonable progression and a decent way of doing it.  I guess you could also make them Mk2-Mk4 transports and eliminate the 'assault' class.

Heh.  Mk.V transports that can hoover up paralyzed/engine-damaged things at a larger (still tiny) range without having to drive all over them?  God that's annoying to try and do.

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2015, 05:53:37 pm »
Actually, I'd like it if ships could repair engine damage when they're in the vacuum...

Offline Chthon

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2015, 06:28:03 pm »
I agree, there should be some sort of oversight implemented in how people use and abuse assault transports. Perhaps we should hire a mean nun to thwack players across the knuckles any time they abuse a bug involving them. That would fix the problem, don't you think?

Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2015, 06:53:54 pm »
I'd keep it simple and just nix the guns from the existing Assault Transport.  Even as purely "Stealth/Utility Transports" I'd use the hell out of them, purely because it's a pain to herd a fleet under Cloakers, plus they are vulnerable to the cloaking hiccup on system entry issue (latency introduced when the game has to step through thousands of units on a heavily-populated planet, it can result in a gap between the ship appearing and the cloaking check picking it up, in case you are lucky enough to have never encountered this irritation -- absolute ragemaker when it happens on a planet with a Warhead Interceptor).

IMO, the main source of the problem with ATs is how much of a "greater than the sum of its parts" boost it produces when you stuff the flying lunchboxes full of weak, high-cap, cheap fleetships.  They end up more than double-dipping as they either gain or lose no per-pound DPS by trading their attack in for the ATs, and the drastically boosted lifespan produces an immeasurable gain if you look at it from a "Damage Per Lifespan" perspective.  There's not really any tradeoff, other than losing whatever special perk (teleportation, FF bypass, etc) that the unit may not even have had anyway.

I don't think it's much of an issue when filling them with starships, both due to their low numbers not being able to push the AT attack up to the max, and because they're already tanky and hit hard (at least certain types), so they don't get the synergistic extra life + no damage loss == effectively loads more damage over time.

An alternative to completely removing the attack from ATs, so they can keep something of an "assault" flavor, would be to replace the damaging attack with something more crowd-control related.  Maybe a short-duration, short to moderate range AoE stun on unload -- that would combine nicely with doom-dropping the fleet in hostile territory both mechanically and thematically.  If it ended up being abusable, stick a recharge on the drop-stun AoE.  Similarly, if there's currently an issue with people pulling rapid unload/reload shenanigans, stick a delay on reload after an unload, so long as the ATs are on a hostile planet.

/end my 2 bytes
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Assault Transport Oversight?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2015, 12:51:26 am »
As a Fallen Spire player, I would gladly trade the AT's meager firepower for tachyon immunity.  >D