As the games goes on, I feel like I get to experience less of it.

[Montaire]

I really enjoy the game, but as it goes on I keep feeling like I get to enjoy less and less of it. Things get added, and yet things also get much more expensive.

The changes in research points not just recently, but since I started has a distinct 'choking' sensation to it. Working within a set of limited resources is challenging and fun, but its getting to fell a bit, well, punitive. I understand that scarcity of resources is absolutely one of this games core principles, but I think its getting a little severe.

x4000, might you be persuaded to reconsider ? As the game goes on, I want to experience more of it, not less.

[keith.lamothe]

I think we'll have a hard time helping you unless we have a more concrete description of what you want

[Montaire]

Easier access, in one way or another, to the broad array of the ships and structures of the game.

More research points, or a lower cost on research unlocks.

[keith.lamothe]

Ah, ok.  Well, that would totally change the balance of the game (and several players have noted that they felt like it was too easy to unlock too much stuff after Chris change the knowledge-per-planet from 2000 to 3000), but you could either play on a lower difficulty where you can more easily take more AI territory (and thus gather more knowledge) or use the "Give Me K" cheat to get chunks of 10,000 knowledge if you feel the game really should be giving you more.

[Arcain_One]

I feel the same way about being less enthusiastic about AI War, I'm hoping that it will pick up with the next official update.

...though it might instead just be my depression... 

[x4000]

Montaire: I understand what you're saying in terms of your perception, and I can even see why various events could lead you to reasonably believe that, but your perception isn't accurate.  

Here's what's changed since about 2.0 or so, knowledge-wise:
1. Knowledge per planet has increased from 2k to 3k.  This is huge.
2. At some point, I don't remember if it was post-2.0 or not but I believe so, starting knowledge increased from 2k to 12k.
3. The cost of mark II fleet ships went down from 3k to 2.5k.  The cost of mark III fleet ships has now cumulatively gone up from 4k to 6k.
4. However, you also now get all of your ARS-granted bonus fleet ships with a mark II level for free, so that's the equivalent of 12.5k knowledge for free right there.
5. The knowledge cost of a number of turrets have been reduced, and almost all of the turrets at mark I have been given to you for free now.  This is a savings of well over 15k of knowledge easily.
6. Higher-mark turrets have been added, which are definitely on the expensive side knowledge-wise.  You can only unlock a few of them if you also want to unlock other stuff, the net total of knowledge on these might be 50k or more.
7. Higher-level starships have been added, and more starships have been added, mostly at high knowledge costs.  However, again almost all of the mark I starships have been given to you for free.  This saves you somewhere in the neighborhood of 16k knowledge for the mark I starships, but here again there's somewhere at least around 50k knowledge more that's been added on the upper ends.
8. Various new support (formerly Defense) units have been added to the game.  Some cost knowledge, others don't.  Most don't cost very much.  But, in the case of some of the stuff like higher-mark fortresses it costs quite a lot (as it should, eh?)
9. Various support units previously cost knowledge, but are now knowledge-free: transports, rally posts, and a couple of others.
10. Many new economic-category units have been added: the new command stations and harvesters, mostly.  These are knowledge-intense.
11. However, the number of kinds of command stations you can build for no knowledge cost has tripled: rather than just having economic, you now also have military and logistical.

What's the net effect?
So, that's a lot of data, and that's part of why the misunderstanding has arisen, I think.  What's changed is this:

1. The total amount of knowledge that can be spent has gone up drastically.  As in five or six times what it used to be.  I think this is the part you've been focusing on.
2. The total amount of working knowledge you have has gone up less drastically, perhaps 2x or so effectively, depending on how you count it.
3. Given #1 and #2, since at around the 2.0 point you only had the knowledge to unlock maybe 35% of the total techs in the game if you got ALL of the planets on a map, that means that now it's much lower, down to around 10% or thereabouts.  Again, I think this is what you're focusing on.
4. However, here's the kicker that makes that not matter: the number of available ship classes and types for you to build in any game, before you even spend any knowledge, has gone up astronomically.  It's on the order of 10x higher, I'd guess, but I suppose it could be as low as 5x or 6x.  But in terms of turrets: 10x.  If you count the various capturables like fabricators, etc (not even getting to golems or spirecraft) it's easily that 10x.

You have more options now than ever before, truly, in short.  But the game is also vaster and deeper, giving you more options to specialize and customize.

Why is it designed this way?
I'm really happy with how this is turning out, and hopefully by reading the above you've already figured out what my intent is: to allow players to experience the breadth of the AI War tech tree practically right from the start, and to then allow them to plumb the depths of the tech tree over time, but only in limited specializations.

This is actually really common to most 4X games, except that ours is really wide and not that deep, versus most 4X games are super narrow but incredibly deep.  I think our way is better (at least for this game), because it gives you access to a plethora of tools right from the get-go.  This lets you experiment freely, without having to spend any knowledge to do so, and then you can make informed decisions on how you spend your knowledge and what deeper techs you thus unlock.

Looking at other RTS games, if you look at a game that starts out with three distinct civilizations, you have access to -- at best -- 33% of the units in the game at any one time.  That's assuming you unlock all of the units for your civ in a single game, which is as unlikely as is getting the knowledge from every planet in a map of AI War (well, maybe a little more likely than that, depending on the game).

But, then take the model of one -- say, AOEIII -- that actully starts with something like 10 civs.  Then has a few expansions that triples that.  You're then looking at, at best, about 3.3% of the units being possible to unlock at any given time.  Again, assuming you unlock ALL of the units at once on your civ.  With AOEIII, that's before you even get into home city shipments, etc.

In other words, I think that AI War is very much in line with other mature RTS and 4X games in terms of the percentage of types of units in the game that you're able to wield at one time -- if not allowing more than the norm (well, ignoring the fact that you get only 6 at most bonus ship types out of 54 in one game -- that definitely skews it).  And more specifically, within the ones that you have access to in every game, you have the freedom to experiment and make informed, on-the-fly decisions as you play, rather than having to choose everything before you start.  

Only the bonus fleet ship types are something you have to decide on beforehand (and/or get handed at random after starting).  Everything else is something you can unlock as you see fit, and that's where the customization and personalization comes in.  It's what allows for unique and different strategies between players, for instance, rather than just everyone jetting around with the same six fleet variants.


Anyway, I hope that makes more sense on the design reasoning behind all that.  The shorter answer is: I've already given out a bunch of new stuff to allow players to unlock more, because I was aware of the trend you refer to.  And in light of all the cumulative changes, and the overall design here, I think it's in a good place that's generally on par or superior to other similar games.

[x4000]

One last clarifying analogy I'd like to make, rereading what I wrote:

You're not really missing anything new, per se, when you don't unlock higher-mark fleet ships or starships.  They just are more powerful versions of the lower ones.  Granted, that can open up huge new styles of gameplay or tactics if you suddenly have 9 leech starships -- and more powerful ones -- rather than the starting 3. 

But it's the difference in having a slice of pizza and eating an entire pizza pie.  The game lets you sample pretty much everything, and then tell it when you'd like more of a specific kind of thing.  Again, coming back to that personalization thing.  Want to specialize in cloaking stuff?  Go for it.  Leeches?  Sure.  Huge fleets?  Ok.  Crazy insane defenses?  By all means.

But there's no meaning to the word "specialization" if you can just build everything all the time, I guess is my point.

[Fleet]

Montaire, given x4000's super comprehensive and thoughtful response, it seems that, at least for now, things will largely stay how they are. However, I highly suggest that you use the provided cheats to make the game fun for how you want to play. Overdoing cheats can ruin any game experience, but if you feel that having some more resources or knowledge would be nice, you can use "give me k" to unlock ships or harvesters (for extra resource income). Use them moderately, and to the extent that you get the best experience out of the game. 

[x4000]

Montaire, given x4000's super comprehensive and thoughtful response, it seems that, at least for now, things will largely stay how they are. However, I highly suggest that you use the provided cheats to make the game fun for how you want to play. Overdoing cheats can ruin any game experience, but if you feel that having some more resources or knowledge would be nice, you can use "give me k" to unlock ships or harvesters (for extra resource income). Use them moderately, and to the extent that you get the best experience out of the game. 

This.  Very this.  I wanted to explain my reasoning for why it is the way it is, and for why I don't think it would be a good thing to change it.  But, that has very little bearing on how you play it; the cheats are there for a reason, and there's no reason you shouldn't play the way you want to.

I understand why tools erode in minecraft, for instance, but I take advantage of the self-repairing bug because I think that it would be really annoying to me personally to have to be building new diamond picks every half hour of gameplay (or really annoying to spend all that extra time on mining blocks with slower/weaker picks).  Play how you want to, for sure.

[Vinraith]

Blech, I can't imagine having even MORE knowledge. I feel odd having all these starships and turrets off the front as it is. Fundamentally, one of the defining characteristics of a strong strategy title is difficult, meaningful choices. I think the tech system in AI War has a reasonable balance of this at the moment (with the possible exception of several starships seeming, to me, too good at their niche at mark I to be freebies).

[keith.lamothe]

Oh, I should add that you can use "Give Me K,300" to give you just 300 knowledge, and can put any number in there (up to like 99,999 I think).  That way if you want to play where each planet gives you 5,000 knowledge instead of 3,000, you can just use "Give Me K,2000" every time you exhaust the knowledge from a new planet

I added that a while ago for some folks who wanted to simulate a "downscaled" game on 40 planets, but with the same total knowledge as an 80 planet game.

[Signata]

I think another thing about AIW's method that is different than most 4x games is that you can't max out your "race". In all of the mentioned examples, maxing out your race (or coming very close to doing so) is an integral part of the game, because there are usually some "killer combos" at or near the end of the tech tree that everyone ends up striving for. This causes the game to ultimately become repetitive, even if the landscape and comparative skill levels of those involved are changed. How well a typical 4x or RTS masks this "grind" aspect is in large part what determines how successful they are. If skill and landscape (or even just skill) can compensate for the similarity in available tools, the game can have staying power and be interesting for a long time. AIW makes it so you can't max out the game, and integral components of your composition will be randomised. The initial starting token is only semi-random since you can choose if you want, but from that point onward your "end game" fleet composition is unknown until unlocked via captured labs and fabricators. So in addition to an unknown end strategy (you cannot, in the first ten minutes, predict how you will give the final blow to the AI, if you manage to), you have a tech tree that must be focally expanded depending on context. A particular turret might be crucial in one game, and worthless in the next. The net result is that the game has no predictable maxed out state that most games end up reaching, and as a result the technology actually becomes a form of landscape alteration. In addition to the topology of the map seed and algorithm, the composition of your tech, and thus your strategy and tactics, will never be precisely the same twice---ideally. If a groove is found it should be squashed.

If it were easy to max out the tech tree in every single game, "killer combos" that are otherwise impossible to assemble would be discovered, and the game would degenerate into a procedural grind.

[x4000]

Wow, Signata.  Really nicely summed up, and yes, that's a big part of why it's designed that way.   Other parts include the customizations stuff, and the fun of exploration, etc.  But yeah: I'm expert at coming up with my own personal killer combos for trashing the AIs in random maps of most 4XRTS games, and a big part of my design goal was to stop myself from ever falling into ruts.  Anyway, what you said.

And now, off for some sleep for the night, hopefully this thread won't explode in a harmful way overnight.

[Zeba]

Another way to make the game a bit more accessible is to give yourself a 300% resource boost in the starting lobby. This makes the game much much easier on any given difficulty level even if you don't have access to as many ships as you would like. The upside to this is that you will now be able to more easily take and hold what worlds you want and so get that knowledge you are after. Tbh this game has so many different options on so many different fronts it might as well be several different strategy games all rolled into one depending on what you choose for your specific game.

[Ozymandiaz]

I really enjoy the game, but as it goes on I keep feeling like I get to enjoy less and less of it. Things get added, and yet things also get much more expensive.

The changes in research points not just recently, but since I started has a distinct 'choking' sensation to it. Working within a set of limited resources is challenging and fun, but its getting to fell a bit, well, punitive. I understand that scarcity of resources is absolutely one of this games core principles, but I think its getting a little severe.

x4000, might you be persuaded to reconsider ? As the game goes on, I want to experience more of it, not less.

Not too long ago, you only had 2k knowledge per planet, tho raiding was easier. Far far easier .

So imo, I think the current balance is great. Just select some different units each game and see what happens. its what I do