Are you sure: "Make human ships tractored by AI ships not trigger deepstrike/RE"

[keith.lamothe]

So, "Balance: make human ships tractored by AI ships not trigger deepstrike threat or raid engines" did pretty well in the 6.0 poll.  But at least one person cried out in defense of the mechanic as an interesting emergent behavior.

So: do it or not?  It's not the easiest thing to do in the code but I think it won't be too awful.

[Volatar]

I like the existing reaction. Seems like emergent behavior rather than a bug to me.

[keith.lamothe]

Hearteater had what I think is a good idea: don't change the behavior, just add a new CTRL "Auto-scrap ships if tractored onto enemy planet".  So I've added that option to the poll (and turned on the users-can-change-votes flag).

I don't think that will help if the AI tractors your zombies, but I don't suppose you can have everything.

[chemical_art]

I went with the ctrl effect.

It's a very effective ai tactic that I think they should retain.

On the other hand, with micro you can sacrifice the ship to prevent it.

So I feel the ctrl is the best option: It allows the ai to pursue the tractoring idea efficently. Even with the ctrl it still allows the numerous ether jets in ai hands to absolutely devastate larger ships...


except...

what happens when you are attacking? You can't have the ai start popping your craft faster then an ion cannon as it tractors, destroys, tractors, destroys.

If you triggered the auto destruct when it hopped through a wormhole to an ai planet that might work.

[Nodor]

I would argue that the setting for this is located in the ship types selection in setup.

Eliminate tractoring ships in the list and this problem goes away. 

It's like not turning on astro-trains. 

[Nodor]

On the other hand, having lost games to raid engines + enemy golems.   When that happens it SUCKS.

[Faulty Logic]

I can see it now: one AI honeycomb, bouncing back and forth through a wormhole, killing the entire human fleet.

[relmz32]

I like the emergent behavior but i support the ctrls option.

I didn't realize there is not much you can do about zombies getting tractored.

"You darn honeycombs, Come back here! Let go of my zombies!"

[Faulty Logic]

The grammar/logic nazi in me demands: remove the words "Yes or No" from the poll description; they are confusing, and make the correct answer yes.

Edit: appeased.

[wyvern83]

I would argue that the setting for this is located in the ship types selection in setup.

Eliminate tractoring ships in the list and this problem goes away. 

It's like not turning on astro-trains. 

That's true, I hadn't thought of it that way. I'd leave the tractors on anyway though as like others have already stated it's an interesting behavior that I think the AI should keep. The fourth option simply gives you a way to avoid the micro if you want to which I think is equally valid as I like options even if I'd only use it some of the time.

[Draco18s]

I am in support of the idea because there are cases where one ship will get tractored, and for some reason, survive an inordinately long time and trigger a deep strike.

As cool as that behavior is, it's super frustrating for the player because they might not even be aware that a tractored unit has zipped off-planet!

As a middle ground, could we increase the deep-strike threshold somehow?  That is, not triggered for a single tractored unit (mabe 50?  100?) but free units would be fair game.

[LordSloth]

No, but add CTRL "Auto-scrap ships if tractored onto enemy planet

No. Not this. I would rather see "Auto-scrap ships if tractored through a wormhole Out of Supply.

I'd like to confirm a couple points I've read off the wiki:

• Systems go on alert if around fifty fleetships are in a neighboring system.
• Raid Engines do not care about alert state. They only care about the presence of human military units and system ownership.

Pre-tractor scenarios:
Scenario One
Choke Planet <->Hostile Planet A (alert) <-> Raid Engine (inactive)
If the above is correct, then tractoring WILL trigger a raid, but not the alert. The original toggle situation would be useful here, but the player would also trigger raids trying to clear threatball. Tractor platform drags units from choke to hostile planet, fleet suicides, tractor platform goes back for more immediately, rapidly depopulating system.

Scenario Two
Choke Planet <-> Hostile Planet A (alert, supply) <-> Hostile Planet B (dormant, no supply) <->Raid Engine (inactive)
This seems a more likely scenario - the player could clear threatball without triggering the raid engine, and being tractored outside of the chokeworld wouldn't be immediate cause for scrapping. Tractoring onto planet B would cause a raid if the scrapping processed after the raid trigger. Tractor platform drags unit from choke to planet A, units occupy tractor platform for a short while (preventing it from just hopping back and forth through a wormhole), irritate guardians and other units on planet A, but get a chance to shoot it down and do not trigger raid engine.

Scenario Three
Choke Planet <-> No Supply System (Co-processor or nuke) <-> Anything else
My proposal breaks down.

[Hearteater]

Tractor Platforms and Blackwidow Golems aren't the problem, as they take at least a little time to grab up all the ships unless you are blobbed right on the worm hole.  Ether Jets on the other hand, fill up at one ship and so they might bounce back-and-forth very rapidly.

[keith.lamothe]

Ether Jets on the other hand, fill up at one ship and so they might bounce back-and-forth very rapidly.

I kind of like the idea of an AI unit exploiting the automated control the human is using.

[chemical_art]

I would argue that the setting for this is located in the ship types selection in setup.

Eliminate tractoring ships in the list and this problem goes away. 

It's like not turning on astro-trains.

The ctrl option at least doesn't enable anything new.

If you have tractors are and notice your ship being pulled away you just scrap it. All the ctrl does is automate it.

So doing nothing at all still doesn't prevent the scraping which is the most effective way to prevent the raid / deepstrike, it just makes it micro heavy as you got to very frequently check for the situation.