Are shards allowed to spawn at the same AI world twice in a row?

[zoutzakje]

Is what I would like to know. First shard spawned on a planet called Mud, 2 hops away from my homeworld. Second shard spawned at Mud also. Is this allowed or is this a bug? This is my first serious playthrough with Fallen Spire on, so I figured I'd ask.

[keith.lamothe]

The game keeps no memory of where previous shards spawned; not a bug

[zoutzakje]

ah I see. Funny that out of the nearly 120 planets, the game chose the exact same one again. Hooray for an easy second shard. Time to really get this fallen spire thing going... I've never gotten past the shard collection part of the fallen spire campaign lol. I'd get bored with my game after 2-3 shards in the past. But I really wanna beat Raid Engine so here goes.

I have another question but this one is just because I'm curious. I'm playing on a 7/7 120 planet map. Assuming that my AIP will hit the 800-1000 mark near the end of the game, will I have a chance to see a H/K in one of the exo's? I've never encountered one before and I actually really want to.

[Cyborg]

ah I see. Funny that out of the nearly 120 planets, the game chose the exact same one again. Hooray for an easy second shard. Time to really get this fallen spire thing going... I've never gotten past the shard collection part of the fallen spire campaign lol. I'd get bored with my game after 2-3 shards in the past. But I really wanna beat Raid Engine so here goes.

I have another question but this one is just because I'm curious. I'm playing on a 7/7 120 planet map. Assuming that my AIP will hit the 800-1000 mark near the end of the game, will I have a chance to see a H/K in one of the exo's? I've never encountered one before and I actually really want to.

I have encountered hunters before the 800 mark. I'm not sure that it's totally about aip, but rather the length of the game.

And for the fallen spire campaign, it really lends itself to certain map types and galaxy sizes. For example, I have found it extremely pointless on the X map type, difficult on the usual realistic map type, and well-suited to the grid type. This is because each of the cities has a list of rules that you need to follow in order to place them down. I'm hoping that those rules could either change or be scaled a little bit better. It seems like it's meant to make you take planets or create distance between planets (and force you to use the warping tools). I wish there was another way that we could impose the penalty on creating a cluster of planets (such as making it vulnerable to waves even if there are no bordering planets, like marauders do) if you did not place them with 2 planets in between.

As it stands now, the campaign gives you some really nice cities, weapons, ships, and is actually a lot of fun (I don't like playing as much without it, anymore), but by the time you get a couple cities or so, you may as well just go for the homeworlds on certain map types because you would have to take most of the territory anyways. Best-case scenario, 15 planets required, and on the X map type due to the size of some of the branches, even more aren't eligible because they are leaf nodes!

[keith.lamothe]

FS exo budgets have no relation to AIP, and are indirectly impacted by the length of the game as Cyborg said.  If you want more info there's some here.

And yes, the FS city-spacing rules are there to make you have to take a certain amount of territory to folow it all the way through.  Partly for the AIP cost, partly to make it harder to single-chokepoint the whole thing.  More generally, to make the point that past a certain point you aren't conducting guerilla war, it's just plain war

But yea, there are definitely some FS rules that would be better if changed or at least nuanced to allow other options.

[Eternaly_Lost]

FS exo budgets have no relation to AIP, and are indirectly impacted by the length of the game as Cyborg said.  If you want more info there's some here.

And yes, the FS city-spacing rules are there to make you have to take a certain amount of territory to folow it all the way through.  Partly for the AIP cost, partly to make it harder to single-chokepoint the whole thing.  More generally, to make the point that past a certain point you aren't conducting guerilla war, it's just plain war

But yea, there are definitely some FS rules that would be better if changed or at least nuanced to allow other options.

The rule I really want to see changed, is I want the shard to spawn based on the map at the start of the game, rather then when I do the survey. That way, it does not matter if I have just my homeworld or if I have taken half the map when I start them. What I hold has no impact on where the shards end up.

Plus I would like to see a limit on the Exo waves as well, nothing like waiting for the last shard to get home on 120 world snake map...

[Cyborg]

The rule I really want to see changed, is I want the shard to spawn based on the map at the start of the game, rather then when I do the survey. That way, it does not matter if I have just my homeworld or if I have taken half the map when I start them. What I hold has no impact on where the shards end up.

Plus I would like to see a limit on the Exo waves as well, nothing like waiting for the last shard to get home on 120 world snake map...

I have to admit, this was my knee-jerk reaction as well, but I thought about it a bit more, and I think that normalizing across different setups would be nigh impossible and prone to abuse. If you give yourself a horrible starting position, is that not an intentional challenge by the player? Also, I think that the encounter is balanced around being able to handle a hostile environment. If you are able to clear it out first, the optimal strategy every single time will be to clean out the place and then start the event, neutering the difficulty and what's actually intended.

In short, the encounter is balanced against abuse. You can make up whatever lore you want to have it make more sense, but I don't want to see these encounters become simplified. I know in advance when I play that campaign that I better not clean house too early or I'm going to be next to the homeworlds by the time I do my extraction.

As an added note, it's extremely exciting to have something like a human rebellion timer and strategic points I have to defend AND do the extraction. I love it. I don't mind some rule modifications, but I don't support any modifications that make the encounter easier.

[Eternaly_Lost]

The rule I really want to see changed, is I want the shard to spawn based on the map at the start of the game, rather then when I do the survey. That way, it does not matter if I have just my homeworld or if I have taken half the map when I start them. What I hold has no impact on where the shards end up.

Plus I would like to see a limit on the Exo waves as well, nothing like waiting for the last shard to get home on 120 world snake map...

I have to admit, this was my knee-jerk reaction as well, but I thought about it a bit more, and I think that normalizing across different setups would be nigh impossible and prone to abuse. If you give yourself a horrible starting position, is that not an intentional challenge by the player? Also, I think that the encounter is balanced around being able to handle a hostile environment. If you are able to clear it out first, the optimal strategy every single time will be to clean out the place and then start the event, neutering the difficulty and what's actually intended.

In short, the encounter is balanced against abuse. You can make up whatever lore you want to have it make more sense, but I don't want to see these encounters become simplified. I know in advance when I play that campaign that I better not clean house too early or I'm going to be next to the homeworlds by the time I do my extraction.

As an added note, it's extremely exciting to have something like a human rebellion timer and strategic points I have to defend AND do the extraction. I love it. I don't mind some rule modifications, but I don't support any modifications that make the encounter easier.

It ideally would be a trade off in a different direction. So you could clean out everything first and have to hold a much harder front without the added ships you would get from the shards, or you can plan to deal with a larger EXO wave when you try and take the shard in, but a much smaller force normally attacking you normally. Hold a lot more territory, so that the shard inside your boards can go almost by it self home, but at the same time the AI is attacking you hard because you hold so much a lot more often then they would have if you took a little area and then got the shards in.

[zoutzakje]

FS exo budgets have no relation to AIP, and are indirectly impacted by the length of the game as Cyborg said.  If you want more info there's some here.

And yes, the FS city-spacing rules are there to make you have to take a certain amount of territory to folow it all the way through.  Partly for the AIP cost, partly to make it harder to single-chokepoint the whole thing.  More generally, to make the point that past a certain point you aren't conducting guerilla war, it's just plain war

But yea, there are definitely some FS rules that would be better if changed or at least nuanced to allow other options.

ah yes, I didn't explain myself well enough, but I was actually talking about Spirecraft exo's. I was wondering if they would bring me a H/K with high AIP as I'm at 200 AIP now and only had 2 weak exo's. I have yet to experience an FS exo, but I have a feeling that this is going to be a very long game, so I have no doubt the AI is going to make things difficult for me.

[PokerChen]

On a previous 7/7 game (first time I've turned on Fallen-Spire), the AI eventually brought in an H/K mark-I.

On that occasion, I was wondering why the spire city I built hadn't killed the lead ship yet -> then I moused over the ship...  The next H/K sometime later met my main fleet, so they'll get enough force points with more spire-cities. Never met an H/K otherwise, so not sure if the golem/spirecraft exo-maximum themselves will permit H/Ks on 1 homeworld.

[Cyborg]

It ideally would be a trade off in a different direction. So you could clean out everything first and have to hold a much harder front without the added ships you would get from the shards, or you can plan to deal with a larger EXO wave when you try and take the shard in, but a much smaller force normally attacking you normally. Hold a lot more territory, so that the shard inside your boards can go almost by it self home, but at the same time the AI is attacking you hard because you hold so much a lot more often then they would have if you took a little area and then got the shards in.

It doesn't change the fact that the way it is now, you have a hostile system, the wave, the extraction. In your scenario, there is no hostile system which means an easy chokepoint defense. The extraction would be a simple trip home.

[keith.lamothe]

It ideally would be a trade off in a different direction. So you could clean out everything first and have to hold a much harder front without the added ships you would get from the shards, or you can plan to deal with a larger EXO wave when you try and take the shard in, but a much smaller force normally attacking you normally. Hold a lot more territory, so that the shard inside your boards can go almost by it self home, but at the same time the AI is attacking you hard because you hold so much a lot more often then they would have if you took a little area and then got the shards in.

It doesn't change the fact that the way it is now, you have a hostile system, the wave, the extraction. In your scenario, there is no hostile system which means an easy chokepoint defense. The extraction would be a simple trip home.

I could have it drop in the chase-exos counter-attack-guard-post style

I bet y'all would just love that...

[Eternaly_Lost]

It ideally would be a trade off in a different direction. So you could clean out everything first and have to hold a much harder front without the added ships you would get from the shards, or you can plan to deal with a larger EXO wave when you try and take the shard in, but a much smaller force normally attacking you normally. Hold a lot more territory, so that the shard inside your boards can go almost by it self home, but at the same time the AI is attacking you hard because you hold so much a lot more often then they would have if you took a little area and then got the shards in.

It doesn't change the fact that the way it is now, you have a hostile system, the wave, the extraction. In your scenario, there is no hostile system which means an easy chokepoint defense. The extraction would be a simple trip home.

I could have it drop in the chase-exos counter-attack-guard-post style

I bet y'all would just love that...

So basically all the Exos going for the shard just spawn in the system that the shard is in? Well it could be done, not with the current size and the once a minute spawn rates. I don't see you surviving that with the shard at the current Exo sizes. In addition that would be extremely painful less the shard got a little faster. Still, if the shard had a bit more reasonable speed it might be a good idea. Clearly might be fun to play, I just don't know if the humans could defend it well enough without a lot of micro, and I thought part of the design goal was to reduce micro, not require that we pause every few seconds to move another shield over the shard and target the biggest threat in the system.

[zoutzakje]

as long as I find botnets less than 4 hops away in any of my future games, I'm happy
of course, that's not going to happen. This is my first FS run through, but so far I really like it. I think recovering shards is hard enough as it is though. Without my botnet I would be in a lot of trouble. It would work if it's only 2 hops away all the time.... but the distance is increasing (3 hops for my third shard) and the Raid Engines everywhere aren't exactly helping either. Without the botnet I'd be done for. so let's not make this harder than it already is
but then again, I think I'm one of the very few players who actually likes to micro, so go ahead

[keith.lamothe]

So basically all the Exos going for the shard just spawn in the system that the shard is in?

Potentially, or one system over, etc.

Well it could be done, not with the current size and the once a minute spawn rates.

Yea, it would probably have to "spend" a certain percent of its budget to spawn off the grid.

Clearly might be fun to play, I just don't know if the humans could defend it well enough without a lot of micro, and I thought part of the design goal was to reduce micro, not require that we pause every few seconds to move another shield over the shard and target the biggest threat in the system.

Actually I really don't mind exos being mildly micro-heavy.  These are basically the high points of the struggle in an FS game, and if you have to pull a lot of rabbits out of your hat to survive I think I've done my job

Not that you should actually have to pause every few seconds, it depends on your setup and your comfort giving orders on the fly.