Anti-Starship guard posts and superweapons (esp. golems) idea

[TechSY730]

Well, I know a reblance of average "normal" ship stats and average superweapon stats is on the table, but until then, what about ways to help make superweapons a little less squishy in the short term?


One of the notable offenders of superweapon "squishyness" is the anti-starship guard post. I was thinking, if most of the superweapons have ultra-heavy hull type, but most of the starships have heavy hull type, what about giving the anti-starship guard post a .5 or .25 damage vs ultra heavy? While your at it, maybe 4x or whatever the attack strength of the OMD (at least enough to tie with the mk. III anti-starship guard post, maybe even mk. IV), but give it the same penalty?


This is a temporary measure. Once the rebalance of superweapons happens, this change SHOULD be reverted, reapplying it only if reverting it hurts balance too much even after the rebalance.

[The Hunter]

I find anti-starship guard posts to be already pretty underpowered to be honest...

[Tridus]

I don't agree with that, in the righ situation. Fighting one on a planet with one of the nastier eyes (so you have to use starships, and a small number at that) can get expensive very quickly. They do a decent job at their specialty.

Orbital Mass Drivers are pretty underpowered though.

[The Hunter]

Forcefields easily block their shots for a while, champion or prolly even riot starships can delay them enough to  easily destroy them/let others destroy them, and if you by any chance have shield bearers...
If anything, at least their shots should be forcefield immune. 

[Tridus]

Forcefields easily block their shots for a while, champion or prolly even riot starships can delay them enough to  easily destroy them/let others destroy them, and if you by any chance have shield bearers...

The thing does 10 million damage a shot per mark. mk II will flatten riot shields and then some, and even take out a mk I shieldbearer in a single hit.

Guard posts aren't normally balanced on the assumption you're running around with superweapons, because if they were it'd be totally insane for people without them.

If anything, at least their shots should be forcefield immune. 

No, we really don't need that trait spreading around like radar dampening or armor penetration.

[The Hunter]

The thing does 10 million damage a shot per mark. mk II will flatten riot shields and then some, and even take out a mk I shieldbearer in a single hit.

Which should give enough time for others to do the thing. And even a champion frigate can solo them without a problem(which is the thing i don't like actually, i always felt there should be obstacles that champion needs help with, so champion player can cooperate with non-champion player).

[MaxAstro]

Rather than force field immune, I would like like to see these guys have a new ability: Force field piercing.  Basically, if it shoots a modular force field, it should apply any damage not used in destroying the force field to the ship that was generating the force field.  This would make them deadly to riots and champions (at least if you aren't very careful with shadow shields) while still letting shield bearers counter them.

I had a lot more fun with these guys when I was playing champion only and thought that a champion couldn't take them on - it was cool to have to "call in air support" from the fleet player.  Then I learned that you just bull rush them and they die, and that made me a little sad. 

I also agree that OMDs are a bit underwhelming.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Champions themselves are fairly close to superweapons until they're strong enough. Look at the anti-starship weapons with respect to only starships. They rip starships apart already as-is.

[TechSY730]

I'm not calling for a buff to the base damage of the anti-starship guard post. I am calling for a nerf of its effectiveness against superweapons (most of which have ultra-heavy as their hull type). Against ships all other hull types, it would be the exact same as it is now.

While giving "overflow" damage of a shield module to the other shields, and then to the base unit if there are no other shields, would be cool, and would fix several abusive tactics, that seems like a separate topic.

[Kahuna]

I find anti-starship guard posts to be already pretty underpowered to be honest...

let me guess. you play 563783657839 homeworld games on 6 difficulty.

Forcefields easily block their shots for a while, champion or prolly even riot starships can delay them enough to  easily destroy them/let others destroy them

why would you tank the anti starships gp with starships when you can just send a bunch of fighters


no but seriously.. I think anti starship gps could be just removed. the other gps counter starships quite effectively. needler and laser gps destroy heavy hull starships in a couple of bursts. missile gps destroy polycrystal, neutron and medium. <-- all starships countered. just like fleet ships. anti starship gp is basically a short range mark v ion cannon which is able to target all ships.

EDIT: remove anti starship gp and buff omd. double it.

[The Hunter]

let me guess. you play 563783657839 homeworld games on 6 difficulty.

Nope, 7/7 and 7/8 maximum so far(i am not really good at RTS), one homeworld, i don't think having that many homeworlds is possible, maximum number of planets is 120. 

lwhy would you tank the anti starships gp with starships when you can just send a bunch of fighters

Indeed, that was response to Tridus talking about getting rid of them on planets with AI eyes. 

I think anti starship gps could be just removed.

I find them interesting though, they just need better placement and some kind of buff versus forcefield tanking. OMD might need same buff too, i haven't tested whether forcefield tanking works for them or not. 

[TIE Viper]

IIRC Orbital Mass Driver shots are immune to FFs.  And yes, they need to be buffed badly IMO.  Actually I like where the Anti-Starship posts are at right now.

@MaxAstro: I like the damage overflow idea.  A thought on it.  Perhaps the damage that gets through should not be (full dmg)-(FF hp) but that and some certain amount more from having to fizzle out the shield?  Like energy bleed off from going through different layers of defense.

Mantis post about buffing the OMD: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11916

[Zeyi]

How about giving the OMD a similar weapon to the implosion artillery.

[Tridus]

Not sure that's necessary. The OMD suffers from not great damage and a very slow firing rate. Probably just need to fix that and see how it goes.

edit - Actually, the other problem with implosion ammo is that it wouldn't do a ton of damage to Raid Starships, making it easy to just raid the OMD. At least, not unless the damage percentage was astronomically high.

Supported the mantis request.

[Toranth]

IIRC Orbital Mass Driver shots are immune to FFs.  And Yes, they need to be buffed badly IMO.  Actually I like where the Anti-Starship posts are at right now.
<snip>
Mantis post about buffing the OMD: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11916

Went ahead and linked it to the other two:
OMD
Orbital mass drivers need a buff

There's been some discussion on the topic already - take a look, I think you'll find a fair amount of agreement that OMDs aren't cutting it right now.