Ancient Shadows vs Vengeance of the Machine

[Ragnarok]

Long story short, i was very dissapointed with Ancient Shadows because i felt the whole Champion thing didn't fit into the AI Theme.
Since then, I'm playing with AS off. Now I'm thinking about buying Vengeance, but would only do so if it actually expands on the base theme of AI without adding anything totally unrelated (like, lets see, a champion in a game that is about large-number combat).

In general and specific to my issue, would you advice Vengeance ?

[Coppermantis]

I say yes. It "only" adds a number of cool new AI tricks and toys, as well as the usual bonus ships, maps and music. Nothing huge and weird like the Champions, but there is another win condition that's pretty cool.

[Orelius]

Definitely!  VoTM really is a great expansion.

For some more in-depth info:  http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Vengeance_of_the_Machine

[Lord Fiddlemeister]

I've had a lot of fun with VotM, the dual AI personalities really mix things up!

[Tridus]

You can leave Ancient Shadows on and get the other things it added without using the Champions.

VotM is neat, but it's more standard stuff aside from the dual-AI option. You won't find anything offensive to you in it.

(Also, Protector Starships are goofy awesome.)

[Bognor]

One day I'll rant about why Ancient Shadows is my favourite expansion and how champions totally don't deserve the hate they get dished.

For now I'll just say that even if you don't enable champs, you must enable Ancient Shadows just for the awesome music .

[Kahuna]

AS is bad and Champions are sad. The music is pretty good though.
Vengeance Of The Machine is awesome. Core Turrets should work like normal turrets though.

EDIT: Well.. I guess I like the AS Core Guard Posts. They might be slightly overpowered though. I also like the Saboteur bonus ship and Modular Forts...... BUT there needs to be a way to unlock ALL ModForts WITHOUT Champion(s).

[Cyborg]

Well, do you or don't you like champions? That's really what it comes down to, and if you play with champions, you absolutely have to level them because they add to the multipliers in some cases, like the showdown event.

I turn them on and off, depending on the game, so they are not all good, and they are not all bad. It's just a modifier that you might feel like once in awhile. That being said, Ancient Shadows is the only one I really turn off, although I should consider turning off Spire so I can do this showdown event a little bit cleaner.

[Zair]

Why are you turning off the entire expansion rather than just the parts of it you don't like? (e.g. Champions or Spirecraft)

[zoutzakje]

yeah every expansion adds a few map/AI types, bonus ships and minor faction(s). Even just a few extra AI types is worth the few euro's to me

[Joubarbe]

Three things I like about Vengeance of the Machine :

- Core Turrets Controlers : capture them and build Mark V Turrets with a per-planet limit (defenses of planets are easier).
- Chivalric AI : no more destruction of Advanced factories. It's not a problem anymore to lose a lot of your planets when you fail to raid a Dire Guardian's Lair, for example.
- Showdown Devices : a new victory condition ; another reason to explore the galaxy.

+ more guard posts, so more diversified games. (and strategic ones)

[Ragnarok]

Why are you turning off the entire expansion rather than just the parts of it you don't like? (e.g. Champions or Spirecraft)

How can you do that ? Get rid of champions ?

[Draco18s]

Why are you turning off the entire expansion rather than just the parts of it you don't like? (e.g. Champions or Spirecraft)

How can you do that ? Get rid of champions ?

Not pick Champion or Normal+Champion in the role dropdowns..?

[Cyborg]

It's unclear to me how much each selection (or not) affects multipliers for different events.

[Orelius]

I'm pretty sure that a champion counts as one fifth or so the weight of another homeworld.