An Dif 7 After Action Report (also @ Haagenti)

[eRe4s3r]

Ok, in the Suggestion Topic somone (Haagenti) posted how bad Vicious Raider and Counter Spies as a combination at DIF 7 are - well let me tell you that is nothing when you also get a unlucky start with a long string of IV worlds ;p I finally found that beyond the IV worlds (and one III world) blocking my path were TENS of worlds with specops posts - The clue came when about 70 IV ships came to my homeworld (unannounced) - i BARELY managed to kill this attack off , my fleet was away - so i moved my fleet 1100 ships (100 IV's, 400 III's) in an attempt to ease pressure of that vicious raider by killing all the spec ops post beyond the IV worlds. My Homeworld connected upwards to a wiped clean (by me) hub with 3 wormholes EACH to a IV world and at NONE my scout ships could break through (neither could my scout spaceship. But i got through a detour a look at some planets there, except one, yes.. that was the one i jumped too.

So i launched the attack - i came about 1 jump far beyond the first IV world (i managed to kill of all important stuff there with ease)



At the same time - about 200 III's Raiders and Bombers came to my now empty AV Factory position with had 2 shields and about 150 turrets - sadly the raiders broke through before i even noticed the attack. And wiped my station and AV factory of the face of the galaxy.

And a THIRD wave from a previous "cold" wormhole of about 50 IV's (again) came to my homeworld, killing off my last remaining defense positions and pressing me to surrender.

Ok - DIF 7 - truly awesome - Vicious Raiders.. SCARY - Counter Spies and Vicious Raiders - HELL (no way to find the spec ops post or scout anywhere, always CONSTANT *large* raids

I bow in awe at the AI, and the ai.. it TALKED mocked me +.+

Seed: 1845214844
Planets 50 - SIMPLE
Complex Ship Types
No astro trains
Homeplanet - .. well guess what? Of course... parasites!

My Comments to the AI. (The AI Chats?!!! ;P)
Yes i thought you wouldn't see That i moved my whole fleet (Although maybe it relates to my scout ship attempts and cloaked ship raids i tried (with raptors?)

[x4000]

That has to be one of the best, funniest after-action reports I've ever seen.  I was laughing the whole time -- loved the graph, by the way.  Counter-Spies are really tough in general, since you're basically playing blind.  Glad it sounds like you had a good time with it, anyway!

[eRe4s3r]

Well, the best AAR it is definitely not Just a recollection of my pain and suffering! ;P

Yes it was a blast - especially because those events above all happened at once including the AI Chat Message which i didn't expect. Actually, unless i am mistaken i would think the AI was a shocked as i was. I made *sure* that the AI could not know whether there were 100 IV's at that AV Factory or not. And all the time i had this AV and these 100 IV's there were never any serious raids. My AV was destroyed before even the first new IV could be built, that was some crazy timing.

Well i got my ass handed to me by the vicious raider alone, without that AI type winning would have been a breeze (maybe), i narrowed the homeworlds down to 5 unexplored planets, without several IV ship type raids i wouldn't even have felt the attack. But 100 unannounced IV's can ruin your day very substantially indeed. Especially when you don't see them coming ~.~

My next game will be on 7 again but this time making sure there are no Counter Spies ANYWHERE. This now the 3rd game where i get (randomly) counter spy AI ;/ - i don't even know how the game feels without not seeing anything. Though now i know how it feels when you don't see anything AND get raids from all the IV's worlds around you which you can't see. It costs alot of resources to build a scout starship and my first one i barely cold get 7 hops with, in the wrong direction too ~.~
Ah well ;p

I just want to mention i didn't loose 120 Ships together the first 5 hours and 20 minutes of this game, the following minutes i lost 10 times that many in less than 1 minute.

I wonder if somebody can guess what i found after that jump

Edit: I just wanted to say - Vicious Raider is a really well choosen Name for that AI type, it may be a cute kitten at the beginning but ever since Patch 1.11i the more IV worlds are near the worse it gets. With only 50 Planets there were not really many chokepoints either or dead-end loops which i could cut off progressively.. ... The Jump from dif 6 to 7 is really massive - like Going from Easy to Hardcore. Not so much that there are more ships, but that the TIMING the ai has really gets awesomely depressing.

Does the Ai actually choose to attack based on "loss counts" etc? Or does it attack more "because it can" and this was all just lucky coincedence? .. mhh

[Revenantus]

Haha, that was a great read.

I wonder if somebody can guess what i found after that jump

I would guess that you experienced the phenomenon I refer to as a Lightning Turret Wipeout. To counteract this, when attacking planets it's often a good idea to send in some smaller ships a few seconds ahead of your main force, the theory being that these first ships will trigger the lightning to fire and your main force will be able to eliminate the turrets before they reload. The AI will actually use the same tactic to defeat your own lightning turrets. Alternatively, you can use lightning missiles to clear some of the enemy forces at the wormhole.

Does the Ai actually choose to attack based on "loss counts" etc? Or does it attack more "because it can" and this was all just lucky coincedence? .. mhh

The AI doesn't keep track of that information, no - It was just an unfortunate coincidence. It could be a possibility for future enhancements though.

[Haagenti]

I think you had worse luck than I do: my current VR/CS/7 game is (after some setbacks), cruising towards a win. Minimizing enemy contact (and thereby minimizing the enemy planets growth) seems to be working. Most AI attacks (Vicious Raider + schizo rocks!) land at one planet, which has both an Ion Gun and a Counterspy and about 200 turrets.

Still looking for the AI Home Planets though. I'm using complex maps, which is easier than simple maps vs Counterspy, and this helps as well

Funny AAR though: at what AI Progress were you?

[eRe4s3r]

I was at progression 103 (that was the price to get to the adv factories and research labs and one expansion point. But no, i didn't run into lightning turrets, i always send 3 ship wave first too.

What i run into was a 160 Mine deep perma mine field (The first 3 ships disappeared without trace, which i counted as "nice defense" not as dead-trap, the few ships that survived that where killed by the defenders on my retreat path. I had never before seen perma mines - not to mention that i haven't seen much of them when i ran into them either ;p

I guess i should choose some easier ai's to get a feeling for how the ai reinforces - had i not lost my fleet AND my whole expansion base + parts of the homeworld i would have won too - But with counter spies the true battle is not winning, its finding where to go to win (so it seems to me ,p)

But i learned lessons here - always destroy all command posts and spec ops posts you find in your advances, that way = less reinforcements = less raids = Less IV ships coming announced ;p

And yeah - technically i didn't loose, but with resources low and all bases wiped out i was technically at the beginning again (with nice tech, though) And the waves kept increasing - through the long string of worlds and a following loop where 5 planets were (there had to be a homeworld) the spec ops traffic from out of my view and reach mounted to something big

Well lesson learned ;P Always send enough scouts over to actually have a view of the sector

[Revenantus]

What i run into was a 160 Mine deep perma mine field (The first 3 ships disappeared without trace, which i counted as "nice defense" not as dead-trap, the few ships that survived that where killed by the defenders on my retreat path. I had never before seen perma mines - not to mention that i haven't seen much of them when i ran into them either ;p

Ah, unlucky. Better bring some Transport Ships next time. An EMP missile will also disable all the mines in a system for about 30 seconds.

[eRe4s3r]

Thanks for the hint, so thats what transports are for o.o

Ah i still feel like am stumbling blindly through the campaign -

[Haagenti]

I was at progression 103 (that was the price to get to the adv factories and research labs and one expansion point.

I'm at 140 now, and there might be trouble brewing somewhere. Then again, I make very sure that there is not a single IV world at permanent "AI is aware of your presence"-level. The one that couldn't be helped is now dead. But this may not always be possible, especially when they are clumped together. In that case, I may have to send a "cleaning crew" every hour or so.

Well lesson learned ;P Always send enough scouts over to actually have a view of the sector

I send them in groups of 20 once I have done most scouting. As soon as I get the message that they are being Instakilled as they are cloaked I retreat them. But as a group of 20 they may well survive III/IV planets of the non-Spymaster, allowing me a deeper look.

I have inspected almost half of the 80-planet galaxy: with my luck both AIs are in the other half. Most of the Data Centers certainly are

[Haagenti]

Thanks for the hint, so thats what transports are for o.o

They also should work for transporting support ships (colony ships, research labs) on deep raids. I have never used them though. I tend to avoid permamines (which are nastier in "simple" maps than in complex)