Author Topic: Basics About Force Fields  (Read 2964 times)

Offline Bud Backer

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Basics About Force Fields
« on: September 10, 2014, 11:31:06 pm »
I'm Studying the Wiki as well as the in-game unit info for hardened and non-hardened force fields and need to make sure I understand the differences between the two.

For each mark, all the stats appear identical except Health and Armour. It's my assumption that armour with low health is better than high health and no armour, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Secondly, I can't recall where I saw this, but somewhere there was a mention of the effects of overlapping force fields. That it wasn't additive  but I'm not certain. Anyone have details on that?

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 12:04:04 am »
Armor is subtracted from damage, but damage cannot be reduced by more than 80%. As a result, if you have infinity armor you take 20% damage from everything (that doesn't pierce/ignore your armor). The Hardened Force Fields have 25% of the health of the non-hardened. Since they basically take 20% damage from everything they end up with more health. Specially, 25% more health. However, there are a number of ships which can wreck hardened force fields so use caution when using them. They work great if mixed in with normal force fields.

Stacked force fields work great. Damage is only ever applied to one force field. That FF takes damage and shrinks. Normally it shrinks so much whatever was being shot at isn't protected anymore and so the FF is left alone. When multiple FF protect one thing, only one of them is struck, typically the one physically closest to the attacker. Eventually that FF won't be protecting the target and then the next FF will start taking damage.

To abuse multiple FFs, you want damage FF to NOT be protected by other FFs. This is because when a FF is hit, all FFs under it cannot be repaired for a bit.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 12:25:57 am »
I'm Studying the Wiki as well as the in-game unit info for hardened and non-hardened force fields and need to make sure I understand the differences between the two.

For each mark, all the stats appear identical except Health and Armour. It's my assumption that armour with low health is better than high health and no armour, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything
Quote
MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Force Field
MarkI Force Field destroyed in: 20,000,000/468,480=43s 43/12=3,5 --> destroyed in 4 reloads = in 48 seconds
MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Hardened Force Field
MarkI Hardened Force Field destroyed in: 5,000,000/(468,480*0,2)=53s 53/12=4,4 ---> destroyed in 5 reloads = in 60 seconds
Stats have been scaled down after I made those calculations but results should still be the same.
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Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 01:03:11 pm »
Armor is subtracted from damage, but damage cannot be reduced by more than 80%. As a result, if you have infinity armor you take 20% damage from everything (that doesn't pierce/ignore your armor). The Hardened Force Fields have 25% of the health of the non-hardened. Since they basically take 20% damage from everything they end up with more health. Specially, 25% more health. However, there are a number of ships which can wreck hardened force fields so use caution when using them. They work great if mixed in with normal force fields.

Thats good info, thanks!

Stacked force fields work great. Damage is only ever applied to one force field. That FF takes damage and shrinks. Normally it shrinks so much whatever was being shot at isn't protected anymore and so the FF is left alone. When multiple FF protect one thing, only one of them is struck, typically the one physically closest to the attacker. Eventually that FF won't be protecting the target and then the next FF will start taking damage.

So if I get this right, if I put two FF generators close together, so that their area of coverage is as close to identical as possible, then when fired upon, the damage would , as the circle shrinks, switch to the other FF? And as that shrinks, then damage would switch back to the original one? And so forth until both are destroyed?


To abuse multiple FFs, you want damage FF to NOT be protected by other FFs. This is because when a FF is hit, all FFs under it cannot be repaired for a bit.

I'm not sure I follow this. If I have the scenario I described above, then no repair would happen to either FF?

Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 01:07:10 pm »
I'm Studying the Wiki as well as the in-game unit info for hardened and non-hardened force fields and need to make sure I understand the differences between the two.

For each mark, all the stats appear identical except Health and Armour. It's my assumption that armour with low health is better than high health and no armour, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything
Quote
MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Force Field
MarkI Force Field destroyed in: 20,000,000/468,480=43s 43/12=3,5 --> destroyed in 4 reloads = in 48 seconds
MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Hardened Force Field
MarkI Hardened Force Field destroyed in: 5,000,000/(468,480*0,2)=53s 53/12=4,4 ---> destroyed in 5 reloads = in 60 seconds
Stats have been scaled down after I made those calculations but results should still be the same.

So, the Hardened FF gives 20% more protection, assuming that it always takes the min 20% damage. Thanks!

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 01:47:31 pm »
So if I get this right, if I put two FF generators close together, so that their area of coverage is as close to identical as possible, then when fired upon, the damage would , as the circle shrinks, switch to the other FF? And as that shrinks, then damage would switch back to the original one? And so forth until both are destroyed?
Exactly correct. The problem is, as you've guessed, that because the FFs are "covering" each other, neither can ever be repaired. One, because it is taking damage. The other because it is being covered by a FF taking damage. I believe they need to wait 8ish seconds to be repaired after taking damage.

If you want to see what is possible, try this: Put 6 FFs in a position around a CS. Set them up like points on a hexagon with the CS just inside the edges of the FFs. This will create a situation where all 6 FFs need to be pushed back a moderate distance before the CS can get hit, but that once pushed back a FF eventually gets a break from taking damage and can get repaired to full. If damage is coming in fast enough, you can still lose your CS though.

To really see this technique, put 10 Engineers behind the CS to speed up repairs and use Mark II FFs for the hexagon. Then put Mark I FFs right next to your CS. The Mark Is can't cover the Mark IIs. This makes it so that all 6 Mark IIs must be pushed back AND all the Mark Is destroyed, before your CS can be hit. But once the Mark IIs are pushed back, nothing prevents them from being instantly repaired to full while your Mark Is absorb the damage. Your only window of vulnerability is the few seconds when all the Mark IIs are pushed back, or something taking out the Engineers (Plasma Siege can be a problem).

Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 06:35:44 pm »
So if I get this right, if I put two FF generators close together, so that their area of coverage is as close to identical as possible, then when fired upon, the damage would , as the circle shrinks, switch to the other FF? And as that shrinks, then damage would switch back to the original one? And so forth until both are destroyed?
Exactly correct. The problem is, as you've guessed, that because the FFs are "covering" each other, neither can ever be repaired. One, because it is taking damage. The other because it is being covered by a FF taking damage. I believe they need to wait 8ish seconds to be repaired after taking damage.

If you want to see what is possible, try this: Put 6 FFs in a position around a CS. Set them up like points on a hexagon with the CS just inside the edges of the FFs. This will create a situation where all 6 FFs need to be pushed back a moderate distance before the CS can get hit, but that once pushed back a FF eventually gets a break from taking damage and can get repaired to full. If damage is coming in fast enough, you can still lose your CS though.

To really see this technique, put 10 Engineers behind the CS to speed up repairs and use Mark II FFs for the hexagon. Then put Mark I FFs right next to your CS. The Mark Is can't cover the Mark IIs. This makes it so that all 6 Mark IIs must be pushed back AND all the Mark Is destroyed, before your CS can be hit. But once the Mark IIs are pushed back, nothing prevents them from being instantly repaired to full while your Mark Is absorb the damage. Your only window of vulnerability is the few seconds when all the Mark IIs are pushed back, or something taking out the Engineers (Plasma Siege can be a problem).

Very interesting, yes I'll have to do this expeiriment to really grasp the interaction. Very helpful, thank you for taking the time to write that all out.

Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 12:22:39 pm »
So I'm back in this thread about force fields because I have new questions...

When firing on a target under a force field, I see both the force field and the target take damage. Isn't the force field supposed to shield the item under it until the FF is either destroyed or shrunk to expose the other target?

Does it matter if I target the FF or what I actually want to destroy that is under it?

How does this work?

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2014, 12:28:51 pm »
Everything under a FF takes 1 point of damage when the FF gets hit (so that it can't be repaired for a few seconds). 

Some ships can move through and/or shoot through force fields.  Raid Starships are the most common example.

It's usually best to target whatever is under the forcefield, that way you'll kill it as soon as the FF shrinks enough to stop providing coverage.  If you target the FF, you'll completely kill the FF before turning to whatever it was covering.  I'll often just attack-move stuff past the FF, that way my fleet will kill any defending ships as they become uncovered.

Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2014, 02:34:53 pm »
Everything under a FF takes 1 point of damage when the FF gets hit (so that it can't be repaired for a few seconds). 

Some ships can move through and/or shoot through force fields.  Raid Starships are the most common example.

It's usually best to target whatever is under the forcefield, that way you'll kill it as soon as the FF shrinks enough to stop providing coverage.  If you target the FF, you'll completely kill the FF before turning to whatever it was covering.  I'll often just attack-move stuff past the FF, that way my fleet will kill any defending ships as they become uncovered.

Thanks for the info.

I also often order my Fleetball to move past the FF as well. In fact, past many targets, as its a good way to just engage all the enemies and not just the leading edge.

Offline Alex Heartnet

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 10:58:10 pm »
If you want to crack a forcefield then bring along a plasma siege starship or twenty.  They do wayyy more then 1 damage to stuff underneath forcefields - it can quickly get to the point where the object underneath the forcefield would of taken less damage if the forcefield was not there.

Raid Starships and Infiltrator Guardians can also shoot and through forcefields, but lack the durability for an extended fight.  Many bonus ship types can do this as well (eyebots Q_Q)

Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 06:20:58 am »
If you want to crack a forcefield then bring along a plasma siege starship or twenty.  They do wayyy more then 1 damage to stuff underneath forcefields - it can quickly get to the point where the object underneath the forcefield would of taken less damage if the forcefield was not there

Wow, that's... Odd? What would make something take more damage just because it's under a FF?

Offline Bognor

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 07:49:58 am »
If you want to crack a forcefield then bring along a plasma siege starship or twenty.  They do wayyy more then 1 damage to stuff underneath forcefields - it can quickly get to the point where the object underneath the forcefield would of taken less damage if the forcefield was not there

Wow, that's... Odd? What would make something take more damage just because it's under a FF?
I don't think that would ever happen in a 1-on-1 scenario.  But a shot from a Plasma Siege Starship "will also damage up to 25 units covered by the force field directly for 6.25% of the original shot damage each" (quoting the Wiki).  So they can actually inflict far more damage to a group of units covered by a forcefield than they could if the forcefield was not there.  I believe Zenith Siege Engines, Spirecraft Siege Towers, and certain modules for Spire Corvettes and Spire Champions use the same mechanic.
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Offline Bud Backer

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Re: Basics About Force Fields
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 08:03:48 am »
Ahh, yes, now I understand. Thanks!

 

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