AI War Beta 7.019-7.020 "Oops MkII" Released!

[TechSY730]

Another desync, report incoming...

EDIT: www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15447

EDIT2: Happened again.

[Bognor]

Is this a typo?

Orbital Mass Driver base shot power from 1 million => 800k.

I'm a few versions behind so could be wrong, but my memory is that the base shot power on an OMD was something like 60 million.

[Qatu]

 For gravity turrets they still have the same issue where gravity isn't being applied every frame update, so fast exos can completely bypass gravity except if i save/load to force a gravity check.

 I'd like to suggest that they get 2-3 auras. The same they are getting now and a second one at double the range but half the strength, and maybe also a third one at three times the range but a quarter of the strength, perhaps lowering the base gravity strength to make up for this. Hopefully this would make gravity more uniform against exos without increasing their power against everything else, it's just so frustrating right now how gravity sometimes does nothing at all vs exo waves.

edit: for mass drivers their current damage is 30M every 10 seconds on normal caps.

[Eternaly_Lost]

So, has anyone noticed that the Imperial Spire ships (ie. spire frigate/destroyer/cruiser/battleship/dreadnaught) are decidedly not transport-immune?

I certainly know that, and see little wrong with it.

Early on, yes the Spire Ships are powerful, but not that much more then Starships until you get into the real campaign.

Once that is going, you are no longer playing the small game. You are playing the take over every planet and deal with hunter killers in waves larger then most players have seen fighters come in.

I had a counter attack by the AI of 283 MK V hunter killers and roughly as many Motherships as well. When you start dealing with AI ships on that level, and ships that can fight on that level. The fact that they can be transported is not an issue.

I still have yet to get the AI to decide to stick the Hunter Killers and Motherships into a transports as they have to many, but the AI certainly gave it a good effort in one of my showdown games.

[Arc-3N-4B]

Continuing on from http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15136.msg170494.html#msg170494 this post, check that last save - the threat essentially hasn't moved, at all. For the entire game. It just sits on each planet, loosely scattered around the galaxy.

30,000 strength of threat? Dangerous in a normal game.

30,000 strength of threat, loosely scattered across the entire AI territory, with most planets only having around 1,000 strength of threat, none of it moving regardless of what happens? Useless.

[Faulty Logic]

Can't wait to try the new golems, though I wonder if they're still too fragile. Perhaps they should be be implosion-immune? A couple AI implosion guardians quickly reduce any golem to the red.

Also, a quick buff to the spirecraft siege towers and shield bearers? Most spirecraft are fine (and, I think, better balanced) as tissue, but these are main combatants.

siege tower health per mark from 4 million => 15 million
remove transport and speed boost immunity

shield bearer base health from 14 million per mark to 25 million per mark, or allow repairs.

I could see myself actually using those outside of excess-asteroid scenarios with those stats.

[Draco18s]

Siege towers really need some help.  I want to use them, but the only job I can find to give them is command station defense.  And even then, typically under shields (or really really close by).  Mostly due to their short range and slow speed.

[RockyBst]

Please don't make golems implosion immune. I already have 24 of the blighters stalking my homeworlds, they'll be bad enough with the extra DPS/Health as it is without taking away my one effective weapon as well. As much as groups of 30+ implosion guardians annoy me when operating my own golems, they're a much needed counter-balance.

I'm not too sure on removing the auto-attrition on the golems personally, it meant you had to at least manage them somewhat rather than just sticking them in a fleet blob and going hog wild. It definitely needs to come back, thematically, for the cursed golems.

And yes, I'm already building dark matter / counter sniper turrets everywhere to prevent multiple copies of a spurned Lyudmila descending on my worlds.

EDIT: Oh yeah, siege towers. I used to use them a fair bit then realised that they're truly awful combatants. Now I essentially never build them unless I have full caps of everything else. On the other hand, shield bearers as multiple extra caps of forcefields I always find very handy as they are.

[keith.lamothe]

Can't wait to try the new golems, though I wonder if they're still too fragile. Perhaps they should be be implosion-immune? A couple AI implosion guardians quickly reduce any golem to the red.

From one perspective that makes sense, but from another: what's the point of implosion if some of the highest-hp units in the game are immune to it?

Implosion may simply be OP.  It does shred pretty much anything frighteningly fast.  But I don't think selective immunity is the answer.  Possibly just nerfing the implosion percents. 

Though you still run into situations where the AI has so many implosion guardians that no one ship (regardless of what it is) can survive long against it.

But isn't that just a good indicator that "should not use un-forcefield'd big ships here?"

Also, a quick buff to the spirecraft siege towers and shield bearers? Most spirecraft are fine (and, I think, better balanced) as tissue, but these are main combatants.

siege tower health per mark from 4 million => 15 million
remove transport and speed boost immunity

shield bearer base health from 14 million per mark to 25 million per mark, or allow repairs.

I could see myself actually using those outside of excess-asteroid scenarios with those stats.

The siege tower and ion blaster I'm planning to basically redo soon, but I don't have time to do it before when I'm hoping to get 7.021 out.  Can do the siege tower hp buff for now, though, perhaps.

And we can try the shield bearer thing, but my concern (based on the reported exploits that led to its nerfing down to that level) is that it lets you stack up so much HP of stuff covering an offensive fleet that there's pretty much nothing that can stop that hammer before it smashes whatever you sent it at.  Short of a Wrath Lance, at least.

That said, those are one-shot enough that this is probably ok.  It's something of a defensive-martyr, although ironically the martyr is generally more useful on defense, and the shieldbearer more useful on offense (though perhaps that's just my perception).

[keith.lamothe]

And yes, I'm already building dark matter / counter sniper turrets everywhere to prevent multiple copies of a spurned Lyudmila descending on my worlds.

Incoming Patch to Your Game in 23:08:14.

Not the thing one's defenses usually need to adapt to in an RTS.

[Faulty Logic]

As much as groups of 30+ implosion guardians annoy me when operating my own golems, they're a much needed counter-balance.

Good point.

A markI seige tower actually has almost twice the dps of a flagshipI, and it's alpha-heavy, which is a good thing.

Without speed boost immunity, they'd be able to go at decent clips around your planets. But they're supposed to be slowish and short-ranged.

Oh, also, the ion blaster. I've never used them since my first spirecraft experiments. Or when I'm rolling in excess asteroids.

I propose health to 20-30 million per mark, and attack range to ~10000

Edit:

what's the point of implosion if some of the highest-hp units in the game are immune to it?

Point.

the martyr is generally more useful on defense, and the shieldbearer more useful on offense (though perhaps that's just my perception)

That's been my experience as well.

is that it lets you stack up so much HP of stuff covering an offensive fleet that there's pretty much nothing that can stop that hammer before it smashes whatever you sent it at.

But that was before the Special forces overhaul, strategic reserve, and guard post buffs.

[Aklyon]

And yes, I'm already building dark matter / counter sniper turrets everywhere to prevent multiple copies of a spurned Lyudmila descending on my worlds.

Incoming Patch to Your Game in 23:08:14.

Not the thing one's defenses usually need to adapt to in an RTS.

Is that 23 minutes, or tomorrow?

[keith.lamothe]

And yes, I'm already building dark matter / counter sniper turrets everywhere to prevent multiple copies of a spurned Lyudmila descending on my worlds.

Incoming Patch to Your Game in 23:08:14.

Not the thing one's defenses usually need to adapt to in an RTS.

Is that 23 minutes, or tomorrow?

Tomorrow

[RockyBst]

Just took a proper look at the upcoming patch notes... that's a scary amount of 'inspired by's

Great news on fixing that threat fleet bug though. I'd been wondering what was causing that.

So while I'm thinking about it ... counter dark matter turrets. I've never unlocked them before, and they claim to be effective against astro trains. But do they actually do anything any more? I can remember back in the day when astro trains destroyed loads of turrets, but now they're far more utility trains and not so much dark matter spewing behemoths.

[Faulty Logic]

is that it lets you stack up so much HP of stuff covering an offensive fleet that there's pretty much nothing that can stop that hammer before it smashes whatever you sent it at.

There are still some scattered ships with dark matter ammo. Notably the cloaked and ff immune infiltrator.