Author Topic: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!  (Read 7780 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« on: March 31, 2014, 10:09:13 am »
(Crossposted from this blog post)

This one isn't as packed as some of ther other recent releases.  During normal working hours I'm focused on The Last Federation, and even moreso right now as we're in the last few weeks before releasing that.

But there's some important player-facing changes and fixes in 7.017.  Hacking an Advanced constructor no longer also charges you for a fab-hack, and the cost of sabotage-hacking is back down to 5 from 10 (was 2 until recently).  Also, in light of Reprisal making fleetwipes more dangerous, the AIP cost of killing a Black Hole Machine has dropped from 10 to 5.  Speaking of salvage, minor faction stuff dying on player planets now contributes to the player's salvage (the AI still doesn't salvage from minor faction deaths, as then they could lead to aggressive AI units with no player involvement).

One of the changes that snuck into 7.016 (because it was already done before the need for that hotfix became apparent) was to make the Starship component of waves scale much better with wave sizes.  In this version other special parts of waves (like the Mad Bomber's extra bomber starships, Heroic's in-wave champions, etc) are using similar scaling logic.  I expect that the Spire Hammer, in particular, just got a lot nastier once the AIP cranks up.  Especially on higher difficulties you might find yourself on the uncomfortable end of a Spire capital fleet.  What could go wrong?

Most of the actual work went into a very substantial code refactoring (primarily of AI Reinforcements) that didn't mean many player-facing changes... this time ;)

Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2014, 10:48:58 am »
Especially on higher difficulties you might find yourself on the uncomfortable end of a Spire capital fleet.  What could go wrong?

Haha!

Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2014, 11:28:24 am »
*Still remembers spire hammer stopping three battleship on my air hw at air 60*


Well...at least there is salvage now, right
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2014, 11:30:49 am »
I think the rules that generated 3 BB's at AIP-60 were changed long ago.  Unless it was a 16-HW game or something like that.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2014, 01:36:17 pm »
Probably, it was the result of counterattack posts and the fact the level of spire ship was based on wave strength. So for IV worlds it was nasty.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2014, 01:40:27 pm »
Probably, it was the result of counterattack posts and the fact the level of spire ship was based on wave strength. So for IV worlds it was nasty.
Owwww.   Yea, that would likely be gg.

Now the heroic in-wave stuff and the spire hammer stuff just buys the most expensive one it can afford with its supplementary budget (roughly equal to the wave's fleet ship budget).  Then it does it again, etc, until it goes negative.

So the counter-wave from a mkIV would potentially be a lot nastier due to the larger budget (from higher tech) but it wouldn't be paying FF rates for BB's, as before.
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Offline RockyBst

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2014, 02:20:05 pm »
So, seeing as my diff 9 game again the heroic AI type is currently around 400 AIP with two more spire colonies to go ... I probably don't want to get this update right yet, huh?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2014, 02:22:10 pm »
So, seeing as my diff 9 game again the heroic AI type is currently around 400 AIP with two more spire colonies to go ... I probably don't want to get this update right yet, huh?
It depends on what your goals are.  How do you want to die today?
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Offline doctorfrog

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2014, 02:31:55 pm »
I have to say it's great seeing some attention swing back to AI War.

I also have to ring this bell again: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=12996

Missing/outdated art assets in Arcen's AI War install vs. Steam's install


The Steam install of AI War appears to be a "complete" version, but the version downloadable from Arcengames.com is missing some graphical assets. Folks who buy or install direct will see these graphical glitches, as well as people who download the demo. A full diff of both the Steam and non-Steam install of the game, with all expansions, dating back to the game's status in December, is included in the report.

Offline Qatu

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2014, 07:22:12 pm »
 I'd like to second this last request about making the downloadables from arcen.com complete. As you can see from my older posts in tech support I had similar problems and the way to solve them was get Steam. I very much appreciate being given steam keys to replace my old arcen only keys but I would much rather be able to get the full game from arcen.com so i don't need to install steam to play ai war.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2014, 08:28:28 pm »
Yep, we hear you.  Apparently I made some kind of goof and renamed files in the expansion folders which is apparently a no-no :)  Don't remember the renames, but anyway.  I will try to get all the missing files into the non-expansion RuntimeData area in the next beta release, and also into the next official release when the time comes for that, so anyone updating into that (or any later one, since the official updates are done sequentially rather than one superseding the previous ones) won't have this problem.
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Offline tadrinth

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2014, 09:11:53 pm »
So, what happens if the starship budget (or 'fun stuff' budget for Heroic, etc) for a wave isn't enough to buy the smallest thing?  Does it just get the smallest unit anyway, or does it round down to nothing?   

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 09:19:49 pm »
So, what happens if the starship budget (or 'fun stuff' budget for Heroic, etc) for a wave isn't enough to buy the smallest thing?  Does it just get the smallest unit anyway, or does it round down to nothing?
If it has a positive amount left that is less than the smallest unit, it buys another of the smallest unit and calls it a day.  That also includes the case when its starting budget is that low.
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Offline RockyBst

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2014, 05:25:32 pm »
Okay, after playing around with this for a little bit it seems like a major jump in AI effectiveness for Heroic AIs. As in, to painful levels. Here's an example:

Wave on Sunday:

Quote
3/30/2014 7:34:23 PM (7.016)
-----------------------------------
Starting CreateWaveToPlanet at Game Time: 18:36:32 ; Player.AIType: Heroic ; Player.AIDifficulty: 9 ; EffectiveAIP: 424 ; AITechLevel: 2 ; IsSchizo: False
MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 1.7
MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 1

FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 3.4
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 3.4
FleetShipBudget *= EffectiveAIP = 1441.56
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 1441.56
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 3243.51
FleetShipBudget *= rand( 0.8 , 1.1 ) = 3158.78
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 3158.78
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = (if <= 3 then 1, <= 4 : 1.5, <= 5 : 1.75, <= 6 : 2, <= 7 : 2.25, <= 9 : 2.5, <= 9.3 : 2.9, <= 9.6 : 3.3, <= 9.8 : 4, 10 : 5) : 2.5
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 7896.94
= For a final FleetShipBudget for this wave's fleet ships of 7896.94

percentChanceParasiteWave (from AI type) = 0.03
percentChanceBomberWave (from AI type) = 0.06
percentChanceStealthWave (from AI type) = 0.06
= actually chosen WaveType: Normal

AIP is between the current tech level's AIP threshold and the next tech level's, so promotionRatio (percent of fleet ships to be bought from next tech level up) = 0.43
Some strength budget remaining from previous pick phases (if any), so spend what remains on types from the Normal group
* called PickUnitsForWave with: FighterII, BomberII, MissileShipII, TeleportBattleStationII, EyeBotII, MicroFighterII, ZenithBeamFrigateII, ZenithSiegeEngineII
** Picked 1356 MissileShipII @ 3.33 each = 4519.89
** Picked 676 Cruiser @ 5 each = 3380
= After picking fleet ships, FleetShipBudget is now -2.95

player.AITypeData.WaveStarshipBudgetMultiplier: 0.25
= StarshipBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * player.AITypeData.WaveStarshipBudgetMultiplier = 1974.24
* called PickUnitsForWave with: Flagship, AIRaidStarship, DreadnoughtII, LeechStarshipII, BomberStarship, ZenithStarshipI, SpireStarshipI
** Picked
3 ZenithStarshipI @ 192 each = 576
3 BomberStarship @ 96 each = 288
3 SpireStarshipI @ 192 each = 576
4 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 256
2 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 384
= After picking starships, StarshipBudget is now -105.76

The OTHER AI player's AIType has GetsSupportCorpsLogic flag, so get Floor(otherPlayer.AIDifficulty * 3 * otherPlayer.GetHandicapMultiplier()) = 27
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: DecoyDrone
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
* picked: SpeedBooster
* picked: Decloaker
Determine quantity of AI-type-specific spawns (spire hammer cap ships, etc) :
techLevelMultiplier:0.52
aipMultiplier = (FInt)EffectiveAIP / ( (FInt)110 - ( player.AIDifficulty * (FInt)6 ) ) = 7.57
totalOfAITypeSpecificUnitToAdd = Floor( Max( 1, MultiplierFromWaveInterval * MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount * techLevelMultiplier * aipMultiplier ) ) = 6
* since AIType has GetsChampionsInWaves flag, and rolled 3 on a d4, picked 6 AIHeroNeinzulDestroyer

== Wave total ships: 2080
TypesForDirectAdd count by type:
MissileShipII : 1000
TypesForCarrierAdd count by type:
MissileShipII : 356
Cruiser : 676
ZenithStarshipI : 3
BomberStarship : 3
SpireStarshipI : 3
AIRaidStarship : 4
DreadnoughtII : 2
Decloaker : 11
SpeedBooster : 10
DecoyDrone : 6
AIHeroNeinzulDestroyer : 6
== For a grand-total Strength value of 14289.63

Painful, but manageable. Note the 6 Neinzul destroyers.

Wave today:

Quote
Starting CreateWaveToPlanet at Game Time: 18:59:03 ; Player.AIType: Heroic ; Player.AIDifficulty: 9 ; EffectiveAIP: 414 ; AITechLevel: 2 ; IsSchizo: False
MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 1.5
MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 1

FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 3
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 3
FleetShipBudget *= EffectiveAIP = 1242
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 1242
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 2794.5
FleetShipBudget *= rand( 0.8 , 1.1 ) = 3023.05
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 3023.05
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = (if <= 3 then 1, <= 4 : 1.5, <= 5 : 1.75, <= 6 : 2, <= 7 : 2.25, <= 9 : 2.5, <= 9.3 : 2.9, <= 9.6 : 3.3, <= 9.8 : 4, 10 : 5) : 2.5
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 7557.63
= For a final FleetShipBudget for this wave's fleet ships of 7557.63

percentChanceParasiteWave (from AI type) = 0.03
percentChanceBomberWave (from AI type) = 0.06
percentChanceStealthWave (from AI type) = 0.06
= actually chosen WaveType: Normal

AIP is between the current tech level's AIP threshold and the next tech level's, so promotionRatio (percent of fleet ships to be bought from next tech level up) = 0.41
Some strength budget remaining from previous pick phases (if any), so spend what remains on types from the Normal group
* called PickUnitsForWave with: FighterII, BomberII, MissileShipII, TeleportBattleStationII, EyeBotII, MicroFighterII, ZenithBeamFrigateII, ZenithSiegeEngineII
** Picked 1343 MissileShipII @ 3.33 each = 4476.56
** Picked 617 Cruiser @ 5 each = 3085
= After picking fleet ships, FleetShipBudget is now -3.92

player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier: 0.25
= StarshipBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier = 1889.41
* called PickUnitsForWave with: Flagship, AIRaidStarship, DreadnoughtII, LeechStarshipII, BomberStarship, ZenithStarshipI, SpireStarshipI
** Picked
5 LeechStarshipII @ 192 each = 960
1 ZenithStarshipI @ 192 each = 192
3 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 576
2 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 128
1 Flagship @ 192 each = 192
= After picking starships, StarshipBudget is now -158.59

The OTHER AI player's AIType has GetsSupportCorpsLogic flag, so:
= SpecialBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * 0.1 = 754.66
* called PickUnitsForWave with: Decloaker, SpeedBooster, DecoyDrone
** Picked
5 SpeedBooster @ 5.88 each = 29.38
4 Decloaker @ 1.93 each = 7.73
4 DecoyDrone @ 230.39 each = 921.56
= After picking AI-type-specific ships, SpecialBudget is now -204.03

player.AITypeData has GetsChampionsInWaves flag, so:
= SpecialBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * 1.0 = 7557.63
** Picked 9 AIHeroZenithBattleship @ 768 each = 6912
skippingAIHeroZenithBattleship because its strength cost (768) is more than our total remaining SpecialBudget (645.63)

** Picked 1 AIHeroZenithCruiser @ 576 each = 576
skippingAIHeroZenithDestroyer because its strength cost (384) is more than our total remaining SpecialBudget (69.63)

** Picked 1 AIHeroZenithFrigate @ 192 each = 192
= After picking AI-type-specific ships, SpecialBudget is now -122.37


== Wave total ships: 1996
TypesForDirectAdd count by type:
MissileShipII : 1000
TypesForCarrierAdd count by type:
MissileShipII : 343
Cruiser : 617
LeechStarshipII : 5
ZenithStarshipI : 1
DreadnoughtII : 3
AIRaidStarship : 2
Flagship : 1
SpeedBooster : 5
Decloaker : 4
DecoyDrone : 4
AIHeroZenithBattleship : 9
AIHeroZenithCruiser : 1
AIHeroZenithFrigate : 1
== For a grand-total Strength value of 19069.51

In raw strength terms, it doesn't look too bad. 5,000 strength jump for the same AIP. But going from 6 destroyers to 9 battleships is just a ridiculous increase in AI killing power.

I also have a slight concern abouts the Fallen Spire exos, although whoo boy I'm not gonna post those massive battle groups logs. They appear to have jumped in power as so:

7.016 - Populating EventAttackArmada, 288750 total points; Game Time: 18:28:01
7.017 - Populating EventAttackArmada, 369000 total points; Game Time: 18:59:01
7.017 - Populating EventAttackArmada, 456000 total points; Game Time: 19:37:01

without me having done anything other than exist. It's gone from 7 battle groups headed by dire guardians in 7.016 to 7 battle groups each led by a golem in 7.017. Maybe I've just hit a tipping point, but I'd be happier with some confirmation that this isn't too abnormal.

Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 7.017 "Ominous Rumblings" Released!
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2014, 06:07:49 pm »
Quote
player.AITypeData has GetsChampionsInWaves flag, so:
= SpecialBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * 1.0 = 7557.63
** Picked 9 AIHeroZenithBattleship @ 768 each = 6912
skippingAIHeroZenithBattleship because its strength cost (768) is more than our total remaining SpecialBudget (645.63)

** Picked 1 AIHeroZenithCruiser @ 576 each = 576
skippingAIHeroZenithDestroyer because its strength cost (384) is more than our total remaining SpecialBudget (69.63)

** Picked 1 AIHeroZenithFrigate @ 192 each = 192
= After picking AI-type-specific ships, SpecialBudget is now -122.37

Aaaaand, there's the problem.  768 points for a fully equipped Battleship Champion is way too low.  Just to give a comparison, a Battleship will usually beat a Hunter/Killer in a 1-on-1 fight.  You'd have to choose terrible modules (like nothing but Shields and Translocators) for the Battleship to lose - And it'll still do 80+% damage.
Properly equipped for the fight, it can almost kill an H/K Mk II.  90% damage, or so.
Hunter/Killer Mk Is are considered strength 3,960 strength, Mk IIs are 7,920 strength.  I'd rate a Battleship right around 7,000 strength.  Even with random modules, around 6,000 strength.

8 Battleships can defeat 2 H/K Mk Vs without using abilities.


So that wave?  It basically had two H/K Vs and three H/K Is added on to it.