AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!

[keith.lamothe]

On Diff 9, there were IIRC always 3 free starships.  For the Exotics, they got their points transferred to the Exo budget.
It looks like now there's only one starship's worth of points going to the Exo budget.

Either that, or I'm reading the log wrong, of course.  Wouldn't be the first time.

Hmm.  If they were getting free points in such a way I imagine they still would be.  The stuff I changed last night (in terms of starship budget) was actually in the function that announces the wave, so it couldn't impact a wave-replacement-exo.

Anyway, if you have a log that says a wave-replaecment exo is getting free points because of starships a wave would have gotten, please shoot it my way.  Not a critical thing but I'd like to update that logic too, and a log is usually the easiest way to find where something's happening.

[Toranth]

On Diff 9, there were IIRC always 3 free starships.  For the Exotics, they got their points transferred to the Exo budget.
It looks like now there's only one starship's worth of points going to the Exo budget.

Either that, or I'm reading the log wrong, of course.  Wouldn't be the first time.

Hmm.  If they were getting free points in such a way I imagine they still would be.  The stuff I changed last night (in terms of starship budget) was actually in the function that announces the wave, so it couldn't impact a wave-replacement-exo.

Anyway, if you have a log that says a wave-replaecment exo is getting free points because of starships a wave would have gotten, please shoot it my way.  Not a critical thing but I'd like to update that logic too, and a log is usually the easiest way to find where something's happening.

I just started a new game, Diff 9, and let the first wave from an Exotic (+ Spireling, if it matters) spawn.
Here are the Waves log and the EventAttack log.

Specifically, here's the piece I was reading as 'Starships go to exo budget':

Code: [Select]

budgetForExo = theoreticalNumberOfShips * exoValuePerUnitOfTechLevel * aiTechLevelMultiplier = 29.52
exoValuePerStarshipOfTechLevel = 256
budgetForExo = budgetForExo + ( exoValuePerStarshipOfTechLevel * aiTechLevelMultiplier ) = 285.52


[keith.lamothe]

Ah, gotcha.  Yea, that makes sense.  That's not affected by what I did with starship budgets last night, but I will make a note to update that logic to use some of the more recent (and more accurate) "how much strength does a wave get?" logic.

[Eternaly_Lost]

Well I just got a redeploy of Special forces well I am fighting them

However, this time I did notice something interesting. The second it redeployed, it took about 12,000 of the ships in the SF and put them on the planet next to the one I was fighting, leaving about 10,000 ships to fight with.

[keith.lamothe]

Odd, I thought I'd put a dent in their redeployment activity, by making them prefer undamaged ships (and only re-carrier damaged ones if there were literally none others it could take).  Is this reproducible across saves, or just intermittent?

[Eternaly_Lost]

Odd, I thought I'd put a dent in their redeployment activity, by making them prefer undamaged ships (and only re-carrier damaged ones if there were literally none others it could take).  Is this reproducible across saves, or just intermittent?

Intermittent, but I think I only see it when I take a few planets quickly and have been playing for at least 30 minutes or so. If I save just a minute before (it has happened), it never happens when I reload the save.

[Histidine]

Since the different mark levels of enclave are closer to each other in power now, they should also have uniform energy requirements along the series like the other starships.

[Lavenders2]

I just used an enclave for the first time last night and it was so good.
Why must everything I touch be nerfed!

I keep joking with Chris that we should add a bit to the tutorial that says "be careful in this battle, as midway through the developer will put out an update that nerfs your most effective tactic".

More seriously, what mark level(s) of enclave were you using last night?

Level 1 enclaves, I only needed 1 and it saved my homeworld. I was playing against 7/7 diff AI.
Oh, I think I'm gonna lose that game and I am going to blame you for this

[keith.lamothe]

Level 1 enclaves, I only needed 1 and it saved my homeworld. I was playing against 7/7 diff AI.
Oh, I think I'm gonna lose that game and I am going to blame you for this

I think you'd be giving me that credit for the wrong reason, then, as the mkI enclave as actually buffed substantially in the change   It's the 3 and 4 that got hit, readlly.

[Toranth]

From a different thread -

Glad to hear the enclave change worked well.  There wasn't too much wailing and of gnashing of teeth elsewhere.

I'm getting there, I'm getting there, be patient 

Seriously, though, I'm discovering how heavily I'd been relying on the drone-spam to deal with certain types of problems.  For example, I just encountered a particularly nasty Bunkerer Mk IV system.  CS-MB with a Mk III Fortress, Mk III FFs, Tractor GP, Dissasembler GP, multiple Ion cannons, and a Spireling AI type, so Blade Spawners, Maws, and Grav Drains under those FFs.  Less than 30 seconds to an entire fleetwipe if tried for an all-out attack.  Still, being a Bunkerer type, this was all way off from the wormholes, so I didn't care, even if this system was straddling my own route to the other half of my empire.  Until that traitor Trader sold this AI a Black Hole Generator, and suddenly I was completely cut off.

My standard solution would have been to use the Mk I + Mk II + Merc Mk IV Enclaves to spawn enough units to get past the large number of shots from the Fortress and Ions, do a little bit of damage, then die.  Sure, it'd take an hour or two, but eventually the forcefield would be pushed back and I could get to the annoyances underneath.  But since the new Enclaves were only producing about 60% of the unit count of the old ones, I couldn't overwhelm the shotcount of the defenders to even get close enough to do any damage.  The FF was actually regenerating while I was trying to attack it.

While the very fact that so much of my playstyle was based around the old Enclaves is an excellent example of why they needed a nerf, I find myself wishing you'd just toned down the DPS and left the number of bodies spawned the same...  Sometimes, especially with shortlived drones, bodycount is as important as actual firepower.
Any chance of getting the Neinzul Combat Carrier brought back as an Bonus Ship version of the Enclave?

By the way, did you know that if you added a new Mk V Enclave, you'd get almost the exact same DPS with the new Mk I-V set that you used to get with the old Mk I-IV?

PS - Is there anything above Reprisal Level 5?  I lost an entire Spire Capital fleet plus a Mercenry fleet, and it only got up to 5...  And the resulting wave was only 22,000 Fighters, less than the 16 times size I was expecting.  On the other hand, the wave only announced "7" starships:


but ended up with this:

Code: [Select]

72 LeechStarshipII @ 192 each = 13824
68 Flagship @ 192 each = 13056
62 BomberStarship @ 96 each = 5952
73 ZenithStarshipI @ 192 each = 14016
70 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 4480
59 SpireStarshipI @ 192 each = 11328
66 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 12672
470 starships.  At least it had a 7 in it, right?  Close enough for AI work?

[keith.lamothe]

I just encountered a particularly nasty Bunkerer Mk IV system.  CS-MB with a Mk III Fortress, Mk III FFs, Tractor GP, Dissasembler GP, multiple Ion cannons, and a Spireling AI type, so Blade Spawners, Maws, and Grav Drains under those FFs.  Less than 30 seconds to an entire fleetwipe if tried for an all-out attack.  Still, being a Bunkerer type, this was all way off from the wormholes, so I didn't care, even if this system was straddling my own route to the other half of my empire.  Until that traitor Trader sold this AI a Black Hole Generator, and suddenly I was completely cut off.

I love this game.

While the very fact that so much of my playstyle was based around the old Enclaves is an excellent example of why they needed a nerf, I find myself wishing you'd just toned down the DPS and left the number of bodies spawned the same...  Sometimes, especially with shortlived drones, bodycount is as important as actual firepower.

I'd be willing to consider having Mk (x) enclaves launch x*y mkI drones instead of 8 mk(x) drones.  But y would probably not be 8, as we discovered what happens when a mkI-thru-IV enclave set can do when launching that many drones per second.

Any chance of getting the Neinzul Combat Carrier brought back as an Bonus Ship version of the Enclave?

Possibly for the next expansion.  The question is what it would do, I suppose.  Or, rather, what it would launch.  Heavy-beam drones and gravity drones and other such cheese?

PS - Is there anything above Reprisal Level 5?

It will happily keep doubling the threshold and keep counting up.  Very happily.

I lost an entire Spire Capital fleet plus a Mercenry fleet, and it only got up to 5...  And the resulting wave was only 22,000 Fighters, less than the 16 times size I was expecting.

The wave logs from that (and a contemporary normal wave) would be worth looking at, then. 

On the other hand, the wave only announced "7" starships

Odd.  Though I suppose the counting logic has needed a look for a while now (like how an early game might wave might say 4 Railclusters + 1 starship, and actually be 3 railclusters + 1 starship because the 4 counts the entire wave), I'll make a note.

Code: [Select]

72 LeechStarshipII @ 192 each = 13824
68 Flagship @ 192 each = 13056
62 BomberStarship @ 96 each = 5952
73 ZenithStarshipI @ 192 each = 14016
70 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 4480
59 SpireStarshipI @ 192 each = 11328
66 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 12672


Share and enjoy!

[Toranth]

I lost an entire Spire Capital fleet plus a Mercenry fleet, and it only got up to 5...  And the resulting wave was only 22,000 Fighters, less than the 16 times size I was expecting.

The wave logs from that (and a contemporary normal wave) would be worth looking at, then. 

On the other hand, the wave only announced "7" starships

Odd.  Though I suppose the counting logic has needed a look for a while now (like how an early game might wave might say 4 Railclusters + 1 starship, and actually be 3 railclusters + 1 starship because the 4 counts the entire wave), I'll make a note.

Ok, here's a rar with the Logs of a normal wave, and the log of a Reprisal level 5 wave.
I've also attached the saves that produced these waves, if you want to duplicate them yourself. 
The Pre-Wave Sample occurs shortly before a normal wave is announced.
The Pre-Reprisal Sample occurs shortly before I moved my Merc fleet in Fidinto into AI territory and scrapped it.
The other saves occur shortly after the wave announcements.

One of the AIs is a Starfleet Commander (hence the very-large starship counts), but both AIs were doing these behaviors.

[keith.lamothe]

The normal wave's fleet ship strength was just shy of 7.5k, with 2070 fighters.  Also 46 starships.

The reprisal wave's fleet ship strength was a tad over 75k, with 20702 fighters.  Also 468 starships.

So the reprisal was right on 10x the normal one.

You mentioned the reprisal warning level was 5, which would indicate a reprisal strength of about 16x a normal wave.

The explanation is that the normal wave had a 1.5 interval multiplier (whereas reprisals always use 1 for that variable) and the 0.8-to-1.1 random multiplier rolled about a 1.077.  Taking those two things into account it lines up pretty close.

As for how much was actually generated by the stuff you scrapped, the merc fleet was generating the right amount (or it looked that way, anyway).  But at about 22 times that much you'd actually integer-overflow the AI salvage counter.  So I increased it to 64-bit.  It has to squeeze into an FInt later (which is something like a 50-bit int with 12 bits of post-decimal precision), though, so if someone busts that I can move where the math happens to not actually store the metal values at all, just do the conversion-to-strength at the time of collection.

On the wave-alert-text thing it appears that the 7 was the distinct number of starship types.  I've fixed that one, and also have it no longer counting the starships in the non-starship total.

Thanks for the logs and saves, very helpful

[TechSY730]

Only in AI War could you actually come up with a situation within standard game conditions where you could throw around enough stuff so that a "resource" count could overflow a 32-bit integer.

[Azurian]

I was wondering if the game version is updating for you folks. I installed the 7.016 update with the Auto Updater and the game version is displayed as 7.009. I tried it with the AutoUpdater in the AI War Steam Directory as well as having AI War folder at the desktop. I have Base Game and all 5 expansions.