Author Topic: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!  (Read 7764 times)

Offline Labfiend

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2014, 10:50:34 pm »
Were research vessels ever changed to not require supply?  They still flash red but now they research as normal even if there is no supply.
That's certainly not an intentional change ;)  Do you have a save?  There's possibly another explanation.

Not on hand, but I can make one.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2014, 10:59:09 pm »
Hey, it's prized in certain weight loss circles.  It's how some people eat things like deep fried butter and live.  A flat 20% off of all calories in anything one eats?  Who needs to diet ;D

I can confirm.

I baked a cake and ate it because (no) reasons.

Still 160.

Offline Labfiend

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2014, 11:05:24 pm »
Here ya go.  I almost hate to bring up this bug as I had been very much taking advantage of it.

Another bug, a vestigial feature, and a request:
-Custom Search (Broad) for Zenith Reserves doesn't seem to be able to detect any Zenith Reserves. 
-I found a couple residual references to Crystal in the game.  In Custom Search (Broad), Crystal is an entry.  There are also searches for Resources Used and Metal Used, which is now redundant; one or the other should be removed.
-Can there be a toggle in the control group settings so that constructors don't automatically add their constructed units to the control group?  I would like to use the control groups to quickly select just the constructors so I can quickly change their build queues.  It also causes problems with the "Engineers don't assist unless you have this much metal" thing forcing my engies to ignore my wounded ships that I'd rather they repair.

Offline Chthon

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2014, 11:07:13 pm »
Were research vessels ever changed to not require supply?  They still flash red but now they research as normal even if there is no supply.
That's certainly not an intentional change ;)  Do you have a save?  There's possibly another explanation.

Not on hand, but I can make one.
Is it not intentional that they flash, or that they don't require supply?  I thought the latter was intentional.

Quote from: patch 7.006
Knowledge gathering in general no longer requires supply (normal knowledge gatherers still require the absence of an AI command station), since there are now other very powerful deterrents to the "knowledge-hack the entire galaxy" approach. ## Thanks to Toranth for inspiring this change.

Offline onyhow

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2014, 11:11:45 pm »
And Enclave Starship finally get their deserved nerf...RIP old Enclave.

Offline Labfiend

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2014, 11:20:59 pm »
Were research vessels ever changed to not require supply?  They still flash red but now they research as normal even if there is no supply.
That's certainly not an intentional change ;)  Do you have a save?  There's possibly another explanation.

Not on hand, but I can make one.
Is it not intentional that they flash, or that they don't require supply?  I thought the latter was intentional.

Quote from: patch 7.006
Knowledge gathering in general no longer requires supply (normal knowledge gatherers still require the absence of an AI command station), since there are now other very powerful deterrents to the "knowledge-hack the entire galaxy" approach. ## Thanks to Toranth for inspiring this change.

I have no idea how I missed that, thanks for pointing it out.  Now I feel dumb.  Sorry everyone :)

Offline Chthon

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2014, 11:28:03 pm »
Were research vessels ever changed to not require supply?  They still flash red but now they research as normal even if there is no supply.
That's certainly not an intentional change ;)  Do you have a save?  There's possibly another explanation.

Not on hand, but I can make one.
Is it not intentional that they flash, or that they don't require supply?  I thought the latter was intentional.

Quote from: patch 7.006
Knowledge gathering in general no longer requires supply (normal knowledge gatherers still require the absence of an AI command station), since there are now other very powerful deterrents to the "knowledge-hack the entire galaxy" approach. ## Thanks to Toranth for inspiring this change.

I have no idea how I missed that, thanks for pointing it out.  Now I feel dumb.  Sorry everyone :)
Actually that was aimed towards Keith.  He had me thinking a nice thing that came around with the recent patches was an accident and was going to go away D:

Offline SapphireSage

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2014, 11:54:42 pm »
Hello everyone,

This is my first post on this forum from lurking so long, but it seems that I found something off now with the new enclaves. Namely, that they only seem to produce 8 Mk. 1 drones regardless of Enclave level. I'm assuming that this wasn't the intended result based on the patch notes.

Also thank you for this great game,
SapphireSage

Offline Aklyon

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2014, 12:35:57 am »
All marks making MKI drones certainly sounds bugged.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2014, 06:08:06 am »
Wait, does that mean nukes no longer prevent science? If so, I cant decide if that is amazing or terrible. I think amazing.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 10:54:39 am »
Update: 7.016 hotfix for a goof I made that had all mark-levels of enclave only getting mark-1 drones.  Also some other changes from last night, but no time for a full blog post for just a few things, focused on TLF during the day.


Thanks very much for reporting the thing with the enclave, definitely not intended to hit them that hard :)

On the knowledge-gathering thing: sorry, I crossed some wires and thought you meant you were able to gather from an AI planet with a normal science lab.  It's fine that they not require supply to gather from a non-AI planet.  Though the being-red thing is a UI bug since supply doesn't impact them.
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Offline Labfiend

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2014, 11:08:43 am »
I think the red flashing is due to the "Requires Supply" flag being applied to them in the tooltip, which caused the whole confusion.

Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2014, 01:42:06 pm »
Update: 7.016 hotfix for a goof I made that had all mark-levels of enclave only getting mark-1 drones.  Also some other changes from last night, but no time for a full blog post for just a few things, focused on TLF during the day.
Glad to see this fixed.  My expensive Merc Enclave was so severely underperforming, I was wondering if it was actually an AI unit in disguise.
But the Enclave nerf overall... 45% reduction to the Mk IV?  Sad Toranth.  Need to play a bit more to see how bad it hurts, but my first impressions say 'a lot'.

Mentioned it elsewhere, but I think the Sabotage hack cost change may have been too much.  Before, the per-unit cost of Sabotoge didn't reach 10 until the 5th hack.  So the player basically lost the ability to do those first four Sabotages, for any given HaP expenditure.  Doing those 4 hacks used to cost 16 HaP total, now costs 150.  A player really willing to shell out the HaP could do 8 or 9 Sabotage hacks - not a whole lot, considering most AI systems have multiple things that can be Sabotaged.
Dealing with AI Types like One Way Doormaster, Fortress Baron, Grav Diller, Peacemaker, or Shield Ninny benefited from Sabotage's ability to do something about all those annoying AIP causing goodies they got.  Even at the previous Sabotage pricing, your Hacking Progress were never enough before.  And now, they're rather less.
Instead of 10 base, maybe 4 or 5?  That makes the per-unit hack approx 10 at the third hack (5th before, 1st now).

The Exotic AIs seem to have gotten a bit of an unintended-buff/nerf in this patch, too.  Now that Reprisal waves are separate, the Exotics actually get something from those points.  Previously, that extra strength just went *poof* somewhere.  On the other hand, lack of free starships seems to have cut the Exowave budget a little, especially in the early game.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2014, 01:55:39 pm »
The mark IV enclave was previously extremely powerful (in utility, if not raw DPS) for its K cost, so I don't think that was hitting it too hard.  At least not by much.  But feedback is always welcome.

On the sabotage cost we can try backing that down to 5, yea.  Just doing a bit of a binary search.

Quote
The Exotic AIs seem to have gotten a bit of an unintended-buff/nerf in this patch, too.  Now that Reprisal waves are separate, the Exotics actually get something from those points.  Previously, that extra strength just went *poof* somewhere.
True.  It's more of a fix than a buff in that case though :)  Either way, the exotics are pain-machines.

Quote
On the other hand, lack of free starships seems to have cut the Exowave budget a little, especially in the early game.
I wouldn't expect the starship-budget changes to have impacted any exo waves (including the wave-replacement ones), actually.  Distinct code branches.  Or so I thought, at least.
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Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2014, 02:47:59 pm »
Quote
On the other hand, lack of free starships seems to have cut the Exowave budget a little, especially in the early game.
I wouldn't expect the starship-budget changes to have impacted any exo waves (including the wave-replacement ones), actually.  Distinct code branches.  Or so I thought, at least.
On Diff 9, there were IIRC always 3 free starships.  For the Exotics, they got their points transferred to the Exo budget.
It looks like now there's only one starship's worth of points going to the Exo budget.

Either that, or I'm reading the log wrong, of course.  Wouldn't be the first time.