AI War Beta 7.002-7.005 "Hacked To Pieces" Released!

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, I've got some fixes to prevent arithmetic goofiness; mind giving me that save so I can test to see if it works?  Thanks

Sure, let me upgrade and try again.  This'll be 7.004?  Whenever it comes out, I'll grab it.

It'll be 7.004, yea, though I'd like to test this before pushing that out.  I can create a suitable scenario but it's faster to use yours

[Toranth]

Ok, I've got some fixes to prevent arithmetic goofiness; mind giving me that save so I can test to see if it works?  Thanks

Sure, let me upgrade and try again.  This'll be 7.004?  Whenever it comes out, I'll grab it.

It'll be 7.004, yea, though I'd like to test this before pushing that out.  I can create a suitable scenario but it's faster to use yours

Ok, then.  Here's the save I made when it stopped doing much.  It's 7.002 still, i think.

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, thanks, from what I can see it works "correctly" now.


Update: 7.004 hotfix is out to put in some protections against arithmetic overflow in the hacking-response calculations if you really run up the Hacking Progress costs.

[madcow]

Unfortunately I have the dilemma of if I want to restart my game and update, or just press on.  I guess I'll just press on without restarting, if I restart it every major update I'll likely never finish a campaign

[TechSY730]

As awesome as these hacking changes look, I think I will just stick to 7.001 for now until some of the balance can "settle" some. I hope you don't mind too much if I don't jump in early in a beta cycle this time round.

[ZaneWolfe]

Hacking a fabricator will now give me access to ALL marks of that unit? HACK ALL OF THEM! (I am going to assume I have to research the MKII & MKIII versions first, if its a unit I never got yet, or am I wrong?)

The way I read it, hacking the Fab gives you mk V at your space docks/starship constructors. It doesn't give you mks I-IV. That would be crazy powerful.

Actually that really does seem to be the case. Keith can you clear this up for us? With the new patch I read this in the notes

Space Docks, Mobile Space Docks, and Advanced Factories:

    Can now all build all 5 mark levels, assuming you have the prerequisites for those ships (so if you have a Core Shield Bearer fabricator you can now build Core Shield Bearers at any Space Dock, Mobile Space Dock, or Advanced Factory; even if you don't have access to building mkI shield bearers).

How does this interact with the new ability to hack Fabs? If I hack a Core whatever Fabricator, and I never had that unit from either start of game or an ARS, does that mean I get to build ALL marks of that unit? If yes, do I need to research the MKII&MKIII versions before I can build either of those or the MKIV? If it DOES unlock all marks then it absolutely SHOULD require us to research the MKII&MKIII versions, otherwise that is beyond broken. If it doesn't unlock all marks unless you own the actual fab, then I suppose that is fairly balanced assuming if you lose the fab you lose the ability to make the unit.

Edit: Or am I misunderstanding and if you hack say a Core Shieldbarer Fab you get the ability to make MKV Shieldbears from any space dock or mobile space dock you own, but no matter if you hack it or own it you CAN NOT build the MKI-MKIV versions no matter what?

[Toranth]

How does this interact with the new ability to hack Fabs? If I hack a Core whatever Fabricator, and I never had that unit from either start of game or an ARS, does that mean I get to build ALL marks of that unit? If yes, do I need to research the MKII&MKIII versions before I can build either of those or the MKIV? If it DOES unlock all marks then it absolutely SHOULD require us to research the MKII&MKIII versions, otherwise that is beyond broken. If it doesn't unlock all marks unless you own the actual fab, then I suppose that is fairly balanced assuming if you lose the fab you lose the ability to make the unit.

Edit: Or am I misunderstanding and if you hack say a Core Shieldbarer Fab you get the ability to make MKV Shieldbears from any space dock or mobile space dock you own, but no matter if you hack it or own it you CAN NOT build the MKI-MKIV versions no matter what?

The second case; having a Core Fabricator gives you the ability to produce Mk V units of that type at your Space Dock or your Starship Constructor.  You do NOT gain the ability to produce or unlock any of Mk I-Mk IV of that unit type.

[Eternaly_Lost]

I managed to get something interesting.

I did the Fallen Spire endgame and Showdown at the same time.

Had to leave the machine running over night. When I woke up, I was at a Win screen, with a Fallen Spire Exo charging at -1128%.

Yes, Negative.

Don't know if it is worth a bug report, as I have NO idea when it happened. And I don't fell like watching a sllide show for several hours to see if it was happening near the end of the build up or not.

[keith.lamothe]

Had to leave the machine running over night. When I woke up, I was at a Win screen, with a Fallen Spire Exo charging at -1128%.

Probably arithmetic overflow, but probably not worth worrying about because if it's that high either you've got the endgame thing going (and should win) or you'll have already died   Will try to get that to properly cap at some point, though.

I love the screenshot.  Particularly the Imperial Spire guys just kinda chilling with the ion cannons and neinzul cluster there.

"Those?  Oh, we wouldn't destroy those.  That would increase AIP."

[Toranth]

Update: 7.004 hotfix is out to put in some protections against arithmetic overflow in the hacking-response calculations if you really run up the Hacking Progress costs.

Ok, tried this out and AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

Player destruction successfully expedited.  That's NASTY.  Under -9000!, indeed.



So, anyways.  I tried out some of the other hacks, and they're all broken, too.
First, instead of spawning ships, the Fab, ASC, and ARS hacks spawn UnhandledErrors.

Code: [Select]

7/3/2013 6:11:10 PM (7.003) Mem: 392,699,904 Plat:WindowsPlayer
-----------------------------------UnhandledErrors-----------------------------------
7/3/2013 6:11:10 PM (7.003)
-----------------------------------Error-----------------------------------Log String: FixedUpdate: System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
  at Player.GetBuyForRoll (Hacking_WildRollResultType RollType, Int32 EffectiveTechlevel, .FInt& SpawnStrength, FInt PreRollStrength) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Player.DoResourceEvent () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunOneCycleOfSimulation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunNextCycle (Boolean DoRendering) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunFrame () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at MainCameraLogic.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
Stack Trace:   at Player.GetBuyForRoll (Hacking_WildRollResultType RollType, Int32 EffectiveTechlevel, .FInt& SpawnStrength, FInt PreRollStrength) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Player.DoResourceEvent () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunOneCycleOfSimulation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunNextCycle (Boolean DoRendering) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Game.RunFrame () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at MainCameraLogic.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Second, while the ARS hack still takes 10:00 minutes to complete, the Fab hack takes 4 seconds, and the FacIV/ASC hack takes 14 seconds.  I presume that's testing times, to be fixed later.

Thrid.  Core Fab unlocks are persisting between games.  I loaded a game where I owned some fabs, then returned to the main menu and started a new game.  At second 00:00 (before ANYTHING) I already had access to Bomber Vs, Protector Vs, etc.
Related:  If you have a FacIV under your control, and lose it, you don't lose the ability to produce Mk IV ships until after you save and reload.

Fourth.  If a system contains more than one Fabricator, you hack all of them.  And you pay the cost for hacking all of them.  There's no way to only hack one.

Fifth.  The K-Raid hacker thingy still requires supply.  Is there a good reason for this anymore?  I used to require supply to prevent K-raiding everything in the galaxy while owning nothing, but that's not an issue any more.  Not at all, no siree, no way is that ever going to happen again.

Sixth.  There's no indicator for what's been hacked.  This wasn't really any issue when it was only the ARSs that could be hacked, because they were few in number and pretty unforgettable (CSGs).  However, now, I can hack FacIV/ASCs (but only once, each), Fabs, and ARSs, with maybe more to come (broken Golems?). 

[keith.lamothe]

That's some very odd stuff, not what it did during testing at all (except for the timings, you're correct on that).  Ah well, just me trying to do things too quickly I suppose

[keith.lamothe]

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

Yep, it worked.

First, instead of spawning ships, the Fab, ASC, and ARS hacks spawn UnhandledErrors.

Mental note: mkV does not mean to use array index 5.  One does not index 5 into a length-5 array.  Not that you want to be around when the hacking stuff starts using MkV.

Fixed for 7.005.

Second, while the ARS hack still takes 10:00 minutes to complete, the Fab hack takes 4 seconds, and the FacIV/ASC hack takes 14 seconds.  I presume that's testing times, to be fixed later.

Correct, fixed for 7.005.

Thrid.  Core Fab unlocks are persisting between games.  I loaded a game where I owned some fabs, then returned to the main menu and started a new game.  At second 00:00 (before ANYTHING) I already had access to Bomber Vs, Protector Vs, etc.

Whoops.  Fixed for 7.005.

Related:  If you have a FacIV under your control, and lose it, you don't lose the ability to produce Mk IV ships until after you save and reload.

That's... bizarre.  I think this is probably related to the previous, as you say, but if you see it again in 7.005 let me know.

Fourth.  If a system contains more than one Fabricator, you hack all of them.  And you pay the cost for hacking all of them.  There's no way to only hack one.

FWIW this is intentional.  Any kind of "targeted" hacking below the planet level is going to be pretty fiddly.

Fifth.  The K-Raid hacker thingy still requires supply.  Is there a good reason for this anymore?  I used to require supply to prevent K-raiding everything in the galaxy while owning nothing, but that's not an issue any more.  Not at all, no siree, no way is that ever going to happen again.

Yea, this was intentional but you have a point there   Changed for 7.005.

Sixth.  There's no indicator for what's been hacked.  This wasn't really any issue when it was only the ARSs that could be hacked, because they were few in number and pretty unforgettable (CSGs).  However, now, I can hack FacIV/ASCs (but only once, each), Fabs, and ARSs, with maybe more to come (broken Golems?).

I can do more along these lines but for now you can probably tell what's been hacked by looking at your space dock and/or starship constructor.  Though it's certainly possible you could take the thing you hacked and forget you hacked it, so having it list these in the Hacking Progress tooltip wouldn't be a bad thing.  Can take care of that later.

And 7.005 is out now.

[TechSY730]

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

The sound of customer satisfaction here at Arcen Games.

Player destruction successfully expedited.

That too.

[ZaneWolfe]

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

The sound of customer satisfaction here at Arcen Games.

Player destruction successfully expedited.

That too.

You know if this were almost anything else, that would be a bad thing... Like EA "Customer Service" or expedited player killing via teleportation bugs in XCOM Enemy Unknown. But here at Arcen... Yeah that is a satisfied customer. And we like it that way. That may say something about our 'tastes', but I think that is ok.

[Toranth]

Fourth.  If a system contains more than one Fabricator, you hack all of them.  And you pay the cost for hacking all of them.  There's no way to only hack one.

FWIW this is intentional.  Any kind of "targeted" hacking below the planet level is going to be pretty fiddly.

I kinda figured that was the case, since it did correctly count both Fabs, but ah, well.  Occasional case fiddly bits are something I can live without.

Sixth.  There's no indicator for what's been hacked.  This wasn't really any issue when it was only the ARSs that could be hacked, because they were few in number and pretty unforgettable (CSGs).  However, now, I can hack FacIV/ASCs (but only once, each), Fabs, and ARSs, with maybe more to come (broken Golems?).

I can do more along these lines but for now you can probably tell what's been hacked by looking at your space dock and/or starship constructor.  Though it's certainly possible you could take the thing you hacked and forget you hacked it, so having it list these in the Hacking Progress tooltip wouldn't be a bad thing.  Can take care of that later.

What I was thinking was to put it in the Warning list when the player is viewing that planet.  Similar to how a Black Hole Generator gives the "Your ships are prevented from leaving" message, you can add a "You have performed an ARS hack on this planet" message.
While having a global list might be better, such a list could make the tooltip really big.

And 7.005 is out now.

And it works great.  Hacking responses are back to normal, nothing persists between games, and losing a FacIV takes away production right away.


Some more notes.
Hacker vessels do not show up under the Science ship filter.  I think they should.
The Covert Knowledge DOES show up under the Science filter.  I think they should not.
The other three hacker-spawn ships do not show up under any filter, and probably should not.

Would it be a good idea to make the immobile hacker-spawn ships self-destruct as soon as their task is complete?  I think so.

Bug:  Covert Knowledge Extractors no longer say they require supply, and do not give an "Out of supply" message when not in supply.  However, they do not extract knowledge.  The AI does respond to these ineffective ships, however.