AI War Beta 7.002-7.005 "Hacked To Pieces" Released!

[Aziphos]

In the ars tab of the research station,  something like the stats shown  are for mkII mk one will be unlocked too.
I have no save of it so I cant give you a correct citation.

[Aziphos]

@Toranth
I play against exotic and bouncer on 7.6...I think the mkf forcefields I have seen were at the bouncers worlds.

[Toranth]

Ok, so I broke hacking again.  Several ways.
*note:  The CounterHacking logfile is still using LF rather than CRLF in a bunch of places, making it hard to read sometimes... could this get fixed?

First - I have at least one saved game that crashes when I try to load.  It takes a LONG time to load, then I get lots of ClientReceivingData errors followed by a bunch of AILoopErrors, followed by my Home Command Station blowing up and instantly losing.  I suspect this is just because of the huge amount of stuff I had sitting around (very late-game save) during the version transition.

Second, the tooltip for the Hacking Progress is a bit messed up:  The number listed for "Next SuperTerminal Tick" cost doubles every tick, and quickly overflows (showing '0' afterwards).  However, this is a display bug only, as the correct value is being added to the "Spent" total.

Third, as soon as the Hacking Progress becomes negative, the SuperTerminal started ticking every second, rather than every 15 seconds.

Fourth, things got crazy - really crazy - for about 30 seconds as the negative Hacking piled up.  Then, well, here's a sample of the CounterHacking log file:

Code: [Select]

7/3/2013 3:47:02 PM (7.002) 19:55:49 Counter-Superterminal-hack Spawn
spawnStrength = TotalNumberOfSuperTerminalTicks * 4 = 756
BaseHackingAntagonism = AIProgressionLevelEffective = 149
HackingProgressEarned = AIProgressionLevelTotal = 599
ShipDesignHackingCost = 50 for the first hack + 100 for the second hack + 200 for the third, etc = 150
KnowledgeHackingCost = 30 for the first planet's worth of K + 60 for the second + 120 for the third, etc = 0
SuperterminalHackingCost = 20 for the first planet's worth of AIP + 40 for the second + 80 for the third, etc = 14827.5
FabricatorHackingCost = 20 for the first hack + 40 for the second hack + 80 for the third, etc = 0
AdvancedConstructorHackingCost = 100 for the first hack if done + 200 for the second hack if done = 0
HackingProgress = -14378.5
minimumBaseAntagonism = -hackingProgress = 14378.5
BaseHackingAntagonism = Max(BaseHackingAntagonism,minimumBaseAntagonism) = 14378.5
negativeHackingProgressMultiplier = Mat.One + ( minimumBaseAntagonism / 10 ) = 1438.85
BaseHackingAntagonism = BaseHackingAntagonism * negativeHackingProgressMultiplier = 20688502.62
multiplierForSuperterminalHackResponseSpawn = 1 + (totalHackingAntagonism/200) = 103443.51
spawnStrength *= hackingMultiplier = 78203293.38
maximumNumberOfWildRollsForSuperterminalHackSpawn = 1 + (totalHackingAntagonism/100) = 206886

...
...
...


wild-roll:InnocuousRoll, spawnStrength = 2028143761413.21
multiplied by 0.93 to reduce recharge to 14, spawnStrength = -159487527862.87

With a base spawn strength of 80,000,000 and over 200,000 wild rolls, it quickly overflowed the strength, resulting in a negative value, aka "No Spawn".  Oddly, after a while it went back to normal spawns every 15 seconds, with overflow no-spawns every other second, and then got OutOfMemoryExceptions starting about -20,000 Hacking Progress.

[ZaneWolfe]

Lets see, hacking is based on total AIP BEFORE any reduction, and I play FS games and have a total AIP of at least 400 before I get a 3rd city up. Yeah I am going to have a lot of HaP to play with. And what is this? Hacking a fabricator will now give me access to ALL marks of that unit? HACK ALL OF THEM! (I am going to assume I have to research the MKII & MKIII versions first, if its a unit I never got yet, or am I wrong?) Hacking a Advance Factory or an Advanced Starship Constructor will let me build them at my HW without having to bother with holding worlds outside of my choke? HACK ALL OF THEM! In fact, HACK ALL THE THINGS! (Did you know that I have a background in computer programing with a professional history as a network intrusion specialist? Not that I think it is relevant to this topic at all.)

All in all, I can not wait to play with this when I get off work... Oh and I hate you because now I have to restart my latest game and I had just got my 4th city built and was about to go after the 5th shard. Well sure I supposed I don't HAVE to restart, but think of all the glorious intrusions into the AI network I would be missing out if I didn't. So much potential lost... Nope, restarting is the only option.

Finally, any idea when the champ stuff or the FS diversification is going to be started on? Not that I am secretly waiting with baited breath on new ways to enjoy the glorious Fallen Spire... Whatever would give you that idea?

[Aklyon]

So am I missing something, or does the hacking progress amount not show up anywhere yet? I've got FS on and knocked out a couple planets to see where it would show up at.

[Tridus]

Hacking a fabricator will now give me access to ALL marks of that unit? HACK ALL OF THEM! (I am going to assume I have to research the MKII & MKIII versions first, if its a unit I never got yet, or am I wrong?)

The way I read it, hacking the Fab gives you mk V at your space docks/starship constructors. It doesn't give you mks I-IV. That would be crazy powerful.

Hacking a Advance Factory or an Advanced Starship Constructor will let me build them at my HW without having to bother with holding worlds outside of my choke? HACK ALL OF THEM! In fact, HACK ALL THE THINGS! (Did you know that I have a background in computer programing with a professional history as a network intrusion specialist? Not that I think it is relevant to this topic at all.)

Correct, and it's all kinds of awesome.

[keith.lamothe]

Toranth: ClientReceivingErrors when loading a game are a stop-everything-and-fix-this sort of thing, fyi   7.003 is now out to do so.

[Aziphos]

So am I missing something, or does the hacking progress amount not show up anywhere yet? I've got FS on and knocked out a couple planets to see where it would show up at.

It will be shown as soon as you first hacked, in the same location hacking response was shown before.
I searched a while too

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, so I broke hacking again.

The two of you get along quite well, I've noticed.

*note:  The CounterHacking logfile is still using LF rather than CRLF in a bunch of places, making it hard to read sometimes... could this get fixed?

It's using Environment.NewLine ... ah, not in the actually logging inside HackingLogic.cs .  Ok, fixed for 7.004.

First - I have at least one saved game that crashes when I try to load.  It takes a LONG time to load, then I get lots of ClientReceivingData errors followed by a bunch of AILoopErrors, followed by my Home Command Station blowing up and instantly losing.  I suspect this is just because of the huge amount of stuff I had sitting around (very late-game save) during the version transition.

Please let me know if it doesn't load properly in 7.003.  Just to clarify: new versions should never break old saves.  Even the reference saves from Chris's alpha games should still work.  The only exception would be if I totally borked the serialization in a particular version, saves from that one particular version might not be recoverable because the save data is simply corrupt (though it's been a while since that's happened).

Second, the tooltip for the Hacking Progress is a bit messed up:  The number listed for "Next SuperTerminal Tick" cost doubles every tick, and quickly overflows (showing '0' afterwards).  However, this is a display bug only, as the correct value is being added to the "Spent" total.

Oops, haha.  Fixed for 7.004.

Third, as soon as the Hacking Progress becomes negative, the SuperTerminal started ticking every second, rather than every 15 seconds.

This is probably due to a ton of wild-rolls causing chain-surges, but that shouldn't be happening instantaneously at -1 HaP or whatever.

SuperterminalHackingCost = 20 for the first planet's worth of AIP + 40 for the second + 80 for the third, etc = 14827.5

There's Yer Problem!  I should have put this in the logging, but to clarify, how much ST reduction had you done by then?

BaseHackingAntagonism = BaseHackingAntagonism * negativeHackingProgressMultiplier = 20688502.62

It should just toggle on the "You Lose" status.

I'm putting an arithmetic cap in there to avoid genuine overflow, but it's going to start doing incredibly nasty things to you if it crosses that line.

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, I've got some fixes to prevent arithmetic goofiness; mind giving me that save so I can test to see if it works?  Thanks

[tmm]

So... erm... what's the point of actually taking the planet with the not-so-irreplaceable once you've hacked it?  Once you've got the plans for the Advanced Factory, why not just take them and run since the Adv Fac itself has been made redundant?

[Aklyon]

So... erm... what's the point of actually taking the planet with the not-so-irreplaceable once you've hacked it?  Once you've got the plans for the Advanced Factory, why not just take them and run since the Adv Fac itself has been made redundant?

You could probably use it as a chokepoint. Or a forward base. Or a Spire City.

[keith.lamothe]

So... erm... what's the point of actually taking the planet with the not-so-irreplaceable once you've hacked it?  Once you've got the plans for the Advanced Factory, why not just take them and run since the Adv Fac itself has been made redundant?

The point of the hacking is so that you don't need to take (or hold) the planet.

[tmm]

Ok, just making sure

Because in the case of ARS hacking you will be taking (if not holding) the planet, I figured the intention was similar but it seems not.

[Toranth]

First - I have at least one saved game that crashes when I try to load.  It takes a LONG time to load, then I get lots of ClientReceivingData errors followed by a bunch of AILoopErrors, followed by my Home Command Station blowing up and instantly losing.  I suspect this is just because of the huge amount of stuff I had sitting around (very late-game save) during the version transition.

Please let me know if it doesn't load properly in 7.003.  Just to clarify: new versions should never break old saves.  Even the reference saves from Chris's alpha games should still work.  The only exception would be if I totally borked the serialization in a particular version, saves from that one particular version might not be recoverable because the save data is simply corrupt (though it's been a while since that's happened).

That game and the others all load fine now in 7.003, and hacking experiments continue apace.  I was suprised that when I loaded that game, it said "Hacking progresss: -85,369" and "AI expected response: 728,871,976", though.  I hadn't even gotten to "Forest Fire" level in the previous scaling before.

Third, as soon as the Hacking Progress becomes negative, the SuperTerminal started ticking every second, rather than every 15 seconds.

This is probably due to a ton of wild-rolls causing chain-surges, but that shouldn't be happening instantaneously at -1 HaP or whatever.

It didn't start exactly at HP = -1, it started around HP = -100 or so.  It looks like it's when the spawn recharge time is reduced that it starts happening, and the spawn recharge very quickly goes to 1 for every spawn.

SuperterminalHackingCost = 20 for the first planet's worth of AIP + 40 for the second + 80 for the third, etc = 14827.5

There's Yer Problem!  I should have put this in the logging, but to clarify, how much ST reduction had you done by then?

Not really sure, the game was getting odd at that point.  I think that's around 180 ticks?  So 180-190 net AIP reduction.  Not really all that much.

Ok, I've got some fixes to prevent arithmetic goofiness; mind giving me that save so I can test to see if it works?  Thanks

Sure, let me upgrade and try again.  This'll be 7.004?  Whenever it comes out, I'll grab it.