AI War Beta 6.040 "The Kinder, Gentler Sort Of Core Guard Post" Released!

[TechSY730]

Maybe the fleet starship exo costs can be bumped up a tier? There has been a general feeling recently that starships are a bit too cheap in exos anyways recently, with Mk. I flagships being the most notorious (though thankfully, as a semi-support starship, their DPS isn't all that great)

I would support splitting shark into a AIP increasing version and a temporary aggression version, that could both be turned on individually or simultaneously.

And what about those broken golem (brutal) et al variants (the worst of both medium and hard rolled into one)?

[Kahuna]

Special forces alarm posts : These can produce unwinnable situations, especially in conjunction with Hunter. I would increase their AIP on death to 10, and make destroying the post never trigger the SF alarm.

Then the "alarm" should be removed no?

[Kahuna]

What is this "GCS"?

[Kahuna]

And if you need to take the planet, can you not just pop one of the counter posts every X minutes, X being the length of time you expect to need between waves to reposition and repair?

Yes I (and anyone) CAN... I can also hang myself.

[Kahuna]

filling in the rest with command shield guard posts if the AI type is bat retailitory seems like a good idea.

I said spire shield posts. Command shield would be too gentle.

hmm what's so special about spire shield guard posts..?

[Kahuna]

Btw am I the only one having the transported ships display bug?
On the galaxy map allied units are shown as units in transports AND "normal" units at the same time and I can't see my transported units on the galaxy map at all.

[Vyndicu]

What is this "GCS"?

If you are not in the alpha testing, vengeance expansion, then FORGET that GCS exist.

Otherwise you are in a world of AI inflicted pain.

[keith.lamothe]

Kahuna is in the alpha. 

GCS are a showdown-related unit.

On the allies-showing-like-in-transports thing, Kahuna, can you point me at a save?  I've had that on my list but I was kind of surprised by the lack of other reports, etc, so I've focused on other things.

[Vyndicu]

Kahuna is in the alpha. 

GCS are a showdown-related unit.

On the allies-showing-like-in-transports thing, Kahuna, can you point me at a save?  I've had that on my list but I was kind of surprised by the lack of other reports, etc, so I've focused on other things.

I was intend trying to be vague much as I can. 

[Toranth]

The Warp Jammer subcommander : 13 counter posts is acceptable iff I've enabled the Retaliatory parent AI.

It's already setup to let me restrict subcommader types by AI Type so that's easy, but I'm kind of surprised that this particular one gets so much dislike.  To clarify: it's plopping the command station way out near the grav ring, and plopping all its (non-wormhole) guard posts down right next to the station, and making all of them Counter posts.  Are you seeing something different?  If you don't need to take the planet, doesn't this mean that the AI mostly stays out of your way as you go through?  And if you need to take the planet, can you not just pop one of the counter posts every X minutes, X being the length of time you expect to need between waves to reposition and repair?

The only reason I can see this really sucking is if:
a) There's a unique in the system
b) There's an Eye in the system
In the game I showed that screenshot from, 10 Core Counter-attack posts on a system with 1 of only 2 CSG-Ds.  Meaning, it was almost required that I capture that system to finish the game... but at the same time, it would have been VERY annoying to do so.

3 or 4 max would be good (unless the AI is Retaliatory), with the rest being spire shield posts, to maintain some of the difficulty of taking the planet.

There's already a Subcommander type that heavily likes Spire Shield Posts (more than one actually, I think). 
Really, as long as the system doesn't have an Eye or anything important on it, I see no reason NOT to allow it to have 10 or more Counter posts.

Shark: it seems like this should be two plots, one that causes aip upon cmd death, and one that causes additional AI attacks for the same (the latter would keep the shark name, the former could be Escalation or similar).

Hmm, might go with Shark-A and Shark-B or something like that.  But yea, splitting them wouldn't be too difficult and would be nice for players who want one and not the other.

While I like the special Exowave and CPA bonus, I don't like the AIP bonus.  It's permanent.  I'd rather leave it as one plot, but get rid of the AIP.  I know I'd never play with the +AIP version, anyway.

Combat carrier : doesn't seem to have a role. Fleet support is far better achieved with MSDs, while drone production belongs to the Enclave starships. I would scrap it and add the Shrikes as their own youngling ship.

... That's a really good idea.  Thanks

This makes me a little sad.  I liked the idea of a Bonus version of the Enclave Starships.  But in their current incarnation, I agree that the Combat Carriers just don't work.  Especially since they can't produce Railpods

[keith.lamothe]

While I like the special Exowave and CPA bonus, I don't like the AIP bonus.  It's permanent.  I'd rather leave it as one plot, but get rid of the AIP.  I know I'd never play with the +AIP version, anyway.

Hearteater had specifically asked for an option to give +AIP on command station death, and that's what the Shark plot grew out of.  So that option still needs to be there. But I agree that it would be nice for people who want the non-permanent parts of it to not have to always take the +AIP component with it.

This makes me a little sad.  I liked the idea of a Bonus version of the Enclave Starships.  But in their current incarnation, I agree that the Combat Carriers just don't work.  Especially since they can't produce Railpods

Well, what could a bonus version of the Enclave Starship give you that the MSD could not?  I mean, it's not like there's zero room for additional value (I could basically make it a railcluster-starship or whatever like I was trending towards, with the unit construction stuff just bonus on top of that) but not really enough, and even the options for that that I've heard would be pretty fiddly.

[Kahuna]

On the allies-showing-like-in-transports thing, Kahuna, can you point me at a save?  I've had that on my list but I was kind of surprised by the lack of other reports, etc, so I've focused on other things.

Here you go.
I don't know if others can see it. Maybe it's a problem with my installation? If you can't see the bug then I'll download AI War from Steam again.
http://i.imgur.com/ksnSE9D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/foZ3jSD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ixqdvmq.jpg
So.. as you can see when you select the Allied Ships display mode the resistance guys are shown as units in transports AND "normal" units. And when you choose the "my ships" display mode it claims I have 60 units in transports even though I don't.

[keith.lamothe]

I don't know if others can see it. Maybe it's a problem with my installation? If you can't see the bug then I'll download AI War from Steam again.

The chance of it being particular to your install is nearly zero (the differences would have to be in a single, binary file, where even one bit of download-corruption change would almost certainly cause the game to just not run at all), I had just wondered if maybe the counts have been displayed that way for longer than you thought and thus others didn't consider it report-worthy.

[Toranth]

This makes me a little sad.  I liked the idea of a Bonus version of the Enclave Starships.  But in their current incarnation, I agree that the Combat Carriers just don't work.

Well, what could a bonus version of the Enclave Starship give you that the MSD could not?  I mean, it's not like there's zero room for additional value (I could basically make it a railcluster-starship or whatever like I was trending towards, with the unit construction stuff just bonus on top of that) but not really enough, and even the options for that that I've heard would be pretty fiddly.
[/quote]What I'd expect from a Bonus Enclave Starship is something where the ship itself is basically the same (non-combat) but a little tougher/more survivable.  The more Bonus part would be a new set of drones that it could produce, in the same manner as the original Enclave.  New drones, each a bonus-ed up version of a regular drone.  Shrikes for a enhanced fighter, a heat-beam drone, or a shield drone, or an AOE drone, or a tractor drone, or a DOT drone, or a repair drone, or a landmine-drone, or all sorts of other ideas for bonus drones.

I think I'd rather just see Shrikes as a new Youngling bonus ship over the current form of the Carrier, though.  Sorry, pheonix89, but the MSD is just more useful at the same task.  It's easier and faster to produce new Neinzul than try to regen old ones, especially when in combat.

I don't know if others can see it. Maybe it's a problem with my installation? If you can't see the bug then I'll download AI War from Steam again.

The chance of it being particular to your install is nearly zero (the differences would have to be in a single, binary file, where even one bit of download-corruption change would almost certainly cause the game to just not run at all), I had just wondered if maybe the counts have been displayed that way for longer than you thought and thus others didn't consider it report-worthy.

Someone mentioned it a few patches ago, but it's so minor I don't think most people care.  I know I really don't.

[keith.lamothe]

What I'd expect from a Bonus Enclave Starship is something where the ship itself is basically the same (non-combat) but a little tougher/more survivable.  The more Bonus part would be a new set of drones that it could produce, in the same manner as the original Enclave.  New drones, each a bonus-ed up version of a regular drone.  Shrikes for a enhanced fighter, a heat-beam drone, or a shield drone, or an AOE drone, or a tractor drone, or a DOT drone, or a repair drone, or a landmine-drone, or all sorts of other ideas for bonus drones.

Sure, I'd have loved to do another drone carrier, just with drones with different mechanics and generally better, etc.  But when I asked here whether y'all wanted it to do drones or have a build queue, the response was pretty clearly in favor of the build queue.  The whole process of it getting the nominations, votes, and seeing what implementation was desired has been pretty illustrative, actually.  Sure, if I'd followed the actual mantis record it would have had more health (just an oversight on my part, there), but it having a regen chamber would actually have intensified the complaints about it rather than alleviated them because it would actually make it harder to get max DPS out of your younglings than just having MSDs cranking them out as fast as they die, etc.

So I feel like I more or less provided what was requested, and it was a flop   But I think the Shrikes will be fun new units for the players (probably a bit OP, but we'll work it out), and maybe in a few months we can look at reviving the NCC as a new drone platform.

I think I'd rather just see Shrikes as a new Youngling bonus ship over the current form of the Carrier, though.  Sorry, pheonix89, but the MSD is just more useful at the same task.  It's easier and faster to produce new Neinzul than try to regen old ones, especially when in combat.