AI War Beta 6.035-6.038 "Dire Protector" Released!

[Toranth]

The Broad Search does not show Dire Guardian Lairs at the moment: something that might be important to keep track of.

The Broad Search would show them under their Broad category, which iirc is "Heavy Defense" or something like that.  Same category as Raid Engines.
If you want to search for them, you can use the Narrow filter, which does have an entry for Dire Guardian Lair.

Ah, so they're under Heavy Defense.  Ok, then, good.  There was no 'Dire' or 'Lair' anything under Broad search before, so was I a little surprised.
Narrow search was working fine, though.

I've encountered a Dire Implosion Guardian now... and that thing's crazy.  87% damage to any unit, every 4 seconds.  If it were alone, this'd be the perfect target for high-cap swarmers... but my goodness, watching starships melt in front of that monster was impressive.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, Dire Implosions... keep anything you care about well away   Cover them with Riot shields or something like that, at least.


On the point defense modules, that has occurred to me, yes, but there's not really time for that pre-7.0 so for balancing the Lightning Torpedo Frigate my current plan is:
1) Make the AI pay 1.5x as much for them as it would normally (same multiplier it gets for the Zombard).
2) Halve the torpedo's speed.
3) Triple the torpedo's self-attrition time (so effective 50% increase in its effective range)
4) Reduce torpedo health dramatically so that a disengaged fleet is very likely to shoot them down before they self-detonate.  Whether they're shot down far enough away is a function of the range of the ships in question, etc.

[ZaneWolfe]

2) Halve the torpedo's speed.

I wouldn't. Those things are fairly slow as it stands, a lot of things can actually out run them right now. If you simply drop the HP on them while boosting the attrition time to about 2 min it should be fine. If you have to lower the speed, I wouldn't go any lower than 50. (Based on Normal Combat Style) Most units would still be able to out run them and with the lowered HP they should be able to shoot them down.

Now how to make this so its still a useful weapon in human hands where you can only get 6 of them without a Fab or an Adv Fac. And even then with both you go from a cap of 6 to a cap of 10. With their natural coding that they wont get close to anything unless ordered I find that they are not overly impressive in and of themselves. Though I am still testing with them and looking for something they excel at.

[keith.lamothe]

I wouldn't. Those things are fairly slow as it stands, a lot of things can actually out run them right now.

This is true, but is it a problem?  I think it's actually unique in a fun way to have something firing these fairly devastating torpedoes but you can outrun them   Moving your whole fleet, particularly again and again as the frigates catch up to you, has a tactical cost.  If the torpedoes force you to abandon a particular position, then that matters.  And against fixed defenses and forcefields...

As far as the human usefulness, I can have them close with their targets, the question is whether that's actually going to help them be more useful.

[relmz32]

As far as the human usefulness, I can have them close with their targets, the question is whether that's actually going to help them be more useful.

"Yes, I said *closer*! Move as close as you can, and engage those Star Destroyers Fleet Ships at point blank range!"
"At that close range we won't last long against those Fleet Ships!"
"We'll last longer than we will against that Death Star Mothership! And we might just take a few of them with us!"
-Star Wars VI, Return of the Jedi

[keith.lamothe]

If there's a mothership on the field, then either you're focusing it down or your fleet needs to be getting closer to the wormholes, not any particular enemy ship

[relmz32]

If there's a mothership on the field, then either you're focusing it down or your fleet needs to be getting closer to the wormholes, not any particular enemy ship

eh, it was the closest comparison that i could think of off hand.

[KDR_11k]

Hm, what about the drone spawning brutal posts?

EDIT: Referring to what point defenses or such would do.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I'd call the death star more of a superfortress armed with a nuclear missile silo.

[keith.lamothe]

I'd call the death star more of a superfortress armed with a nuclear missile silo.

Plus one very convenient exhaust port.

[keith.lamothe]

New one

[KDR_11k]

I'd call the death star more of a superfortress armed with a nuclear missile silo.

Plus one very convenient exhaust port.

Mind installing one of those on the Cookie Monster?

[ZaneWolfe]

This is true, but is it a problem?  I think it's actually unique in a fun way to have something firing these fairly devastating torpedoes but you can outrun them   Moving your whole fleet, particularly again and again as the frigates catch up to you, has a tactical cost.  If the torpedoes force you to abandon a particular position, then that matters.  And against fixed defenses and forcefields...

As far as the human usefulness, I can have them close with their targets, the question is whether that's actually going to help them be more useful.

No its not a problem that they can be out run. But if you slow them down even further AND drop the HP on those while keeping an attrition time then unless they are already on top of something then they wont actually hit with those torpedo. Right now assuming I don't start at knife range against them I can kite them with most of my ships in AI and/or neutral space. And all of my ships in my own space due to the speed buff.

As for making the ships themselves close in FRD, I thought it was supposed to be a long range weapon? If it never hits a target unless its in close range already, then what is the point of having the ships stay back if the torpedo never hits due to being kited/blown up anyway?

[LaughingThesaurus]

I think it might be a better idea if they err more along the lines of too hard to dodge rather than too easy. Could you, say, send in a sacrificial fighter to detonate the torpedo if you can't shoot it down or dodge? Maybe all you need is a little micro.

[ZaneWolfe]

I think it might be a better idea if they err more along the lines of too hard to dodge rather than too easy. Could you, say, send in a sacrificial fighter to detonate the torpedo if you can't shoot it down or dodge? Maybe all you need is a little micro.

That's an interesting idea actually. Would it be possible to code them so that they HAD to detonate if ANY enemy unit touches/comes too close? Make the 'too close' range be half the radius of the explosion, and you could sacrifice weaker ships to keep the torpedos off your more valuable/stronger ones.