AI War Beta 6.024-6.025 "The Squeaky Wheel Gets The Buff (or Nerf)" Released!

[keith.lamothe]

Update: 6.025 hotfix to fix a bug preventing most foldouts from spawning in multiplayer.

[Vyndicu]

Fast question are you supposed to be able to preview a solar system with full fog of war on and tell if they have blackhole machines or not? No scout or anything have previously visit it.

[contingencyplan]

Do you have logs enabled? Could you post up the AIMechanics_Waves_Main?

Just checked. Sadly, no I did not have logs enabled. I'll go ahead and enable them now; I can try to reproduce if it'd be helpful.

[contingencyplan]

Okay, think I got it to happen again with a different post. Here's the before and after saves and the log file requested.

Warning: the AI Eye in the system will detonate in 20 seconds, which will make the CP much less of a concern.

[Cinth]

5/1/2013 10:03:39 PM (6.025)
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Triggering AIWarpCounterattackGuardPostIII Against Planet Deyunvin At Distance 0; wave size factor: 2; Game Time: 26:12:56

This was the line I was specifically looking at.  To me, it looks like the wave originated on your homeworld.  Compared to one of mine that went off correctly.  Seha has a neighbor with a warp gate (the only planet I had with a warp gate neighbor).  In my game Seha is the only valid target I gave the AI.  While you have valid targets, the AI is sending waves against an invalid target (Core CA Posts are the only ones that can reach Deyunvin).  Maybe Keith can actually take a closer look.

4/28/2013 11:48:22 AM (6.023)
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Triggering AIWarpCounterattackGuardPostIV Against Planet Seha At Distance 1; wave size factor: 2; Game Time: 13:56:31

Deyunvin is 5 hops form the closest warp gate and there are several valid targets available. 

[contingencyplan]

5/1/2013 10:03:39 PM (6.025)
-----------------------------------
Triggering AIWarpCounterattackGuardPostIII Against Planet Deyunvin At Distance 0; wave size factor: 2; Game Time: 26:12:56

This was the line I was specifically looking at.  To me, it looks like the wave originated on your homeworld.  Compared to one of mine that went off correctly.  Seha has a neighbor with a warp gate (the only planet I had with a warp gate neighbor).  In my game Seha is the only valid target I gave the AI.  While you have valid targets, the AI is sending waves against an invalid target (Core CA Posts are the only ones that can reach Deyunvin).  Maybe Keith can actually take a closer look.

4/28/2013 11:48:22 AM (6.023)
-----------------------------------
Triggering AIWarpCounterattackGuardPostIV Against Planet Seha At Distance 1; wave size factor: 2; Game Time: 13:56:31

Deyunvin is 5 hops form the closest warp gate and there are several valid targets available.

That's what I figured; I noticed that line too.

My guess is that, because I killed an AI HW, something in the logic is set up that now all CA posts can send waves as if they were core. Which is perhaps intentional --- "SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT JERK!" ---, but it would be nice if it was documented better in that case.

[Cinth]

I think I remember Keith saying that if there were no valid target it defaults to the old logic (sending anywhere) but I can't find the thread.  I can't recall anything else said about CA posts.

[contingencyplan]

Maybe, but like you said, there's plenty of good targets available.

Have another one, this time a MkIII, targeting a system 5 hops in. Saves and log attached. Line 1197 for this wave (Distance 0 again).


Edit: Every time I've posted a file, the server quasi-crashes --- a message from CloudFlare (iirc) saying that the website is unavailable and providing a "click here to refresh" button. Does this happen to anybody else? I'll snap a screenshot next time.

[Faulty Logic]

Is there a timeframe on the nemesis reward and enclave changes?

[keith.lamothe]

Is there a timeframe on the nemesis reward and enclave changes?

They're both on my list for the next release.  We're still sorting out several things on the expansion so it's possible that will be Monday, but it may be earlier.

[Radiant Phoenix]

Have you noticed that a Mk4 Arachnid Guardpost kills a Spire Battleship's shield in one shot, and that the second shot will kill the ship itself, because it will have taken the 1500 damage its armor protects it from many times over by then?

[TechSY730]

Have you noticed that a Mk4 Arachnid Guardpost kills a Spire Battleship's shield in one shot, and that the second shot will kill the ship itself, because it will have taken the 1500 damage its armor protects it from many times over by then?

Yea, so? The arachnid guardpost is supposed to be crazy strong against starship class or above stuff. When faced with crazy strong attacks, it makes sense that armor is not enough to deal with it.

That's like saying "Oh man, I upgraded my Seige Tank's armor to 3, but it still dies in one hit to nukes". (Let's ignore the fact that nukes ignore armor in SC2 for the moment, pretend that it did pay attention to it)


Or are you saying that the armor value of the Spire Battleship's armor is too underwhelming given its "semi-superweapon" status? Or are you saying that the Arachnid Guardpost line is OP? Or are you just pointing out something that is seemed interesting to you?

[Mánagarmr]

Edit: Bah, ninjaed.

[Lancefighter]

That's like saying "Oh man, I upgraded my Seige Tank's armor to 3, but it still dies in one hit to nukes". (Let's ignore the fact that nukes ignore armor in SC2 for the moment, pretend that it did pay attention to it)

in this hypothetical world, immortals hard counter nukes.

Now that would be a welcome change..

[Radiant Phoenix]

Yea, so? The arachnid guardpost is supposed to be crazy strong against starship class or above stuff. When faced with crazy strong attacks, it makes sense that armor is not enough to deal with it.

That's like saying "Oh man, I upgraded my Seige Tank's armor to 3, but it still dies in one hit to nukes". (Let's ignore the fact that nukes ignore armor in SC2 for the moment, pretend that it did pay attention to it)


Or are you saying that the armor value of the Spire Battleship's armor is too underwhelming given its "semi-superweapon" status? Or are you saying that the Arachnid Guardpost line is OP? Or are you just pointing out something that is seemed interesting to you?

I ignore armor normally, and would have just said, "it kills it in two hits," but that would be technically incorrect, because the armor brings the guardpost down from "exact damage" to "within a rounding error".

I suppose my problem is that superweapons just seem to die too easily.

A spire Battleship costs about 1.7 million M+C with modules, and 21k knowledge, and exo-waves, and a bunch of other hassle, while a Zenith Starship mk3 is faster and has more durability for 800k M+C and 4k knowledge and no other hassle.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I find myself convinced that superweapons need to be at least an order of magnitude more powerful than they are now (relatively speaking, so removing a zero from non-superweapons that doesn't get removed from superweapons is an action that meets the criteria)