AI War Beta 6.017-6.018 "Defending The AI's Front Lawn" Released!

[RCIX]

Does this turn lazy AI on by default on existing games? Because I have a feeling the AI wouldn't take kindly to me attacking it at 400+ AIP

[Faulty Logic]

Could you delay the offensive champion response until after the first nebula?

Please?

You have no idea how annoying a constant stream of nemesis frigates is when you're taking your first couple planets. Seriously. This post went through a lot of edits to not be a ragepost.

[TechSY730]

Could you delay the offensive champion response until after the first nebula?

Please?

You have no idea how annoying a constant stream of nemesis frigates is when you're taking your first couple planets. Seriously. This post went through a lot of edits to not be a ragepost.

That does introduce some possibility of cheese of running around with a champion, taking out guard posts and lightly defended planets in the early game without the AI doing much in return.

Maybe revise this to "No active champion response until at least one scenario is completed or level X is reached, whichever comes first"?

Or if you want to close even more loopholes, maybe even "No active champion response until at least one scenario is completed, level X is reached, champion players cumulatively make Y kills on AI territory, or the champion players kill things with a cumulative resource cost of at least Z on AI territory, whichever comes first". (Y and Z might or might not scale with the number of homeworlds and/or the number of champs)

[Vyndicu]

Could you delay the offensive champion response until after the first nebula?

Please?

You have no idea how annoying a constant stream of nemesis frigates is when you're taking your first couple planets. Seriously. This post went through a lot of edits to not be a ragepost.

I am currently in a game with Zombard and I have mark 2 unlock and they pretty much blow up the shield in the first volley. That said there are plenty of way to deal with them quickly. I don't think it is a good idea to delay the nemesis frigates until the first nebula because you can already take the champion and neutering planets without any cost beside time at 00:00:01.

[Faulty Logic]

I don't think it is a good idea to delay the nemesis frigates until the first nebula because you can already take the champion and neutering planets without any cost beside time at 00:00:01.

A level one human frigate is about as effective as a cap of fighters. I cannot neuter a planet with just the champion, without a huge time investment.

[keith.lamothe]

Hmm.  How about the offensive nemesis doesn't start until one of the below conditions is met:
- You start the first nebula.
- A champ reaches level 5.
- The game clock reaches 2 hours.

There are certain cheesemasters I don't trust not to exploit the absence of any of the above, you see.

[Faulty Logic]

- The game clock reaches 2 hours.

Why is this one necessary?

If it is, could it be 3 hours? It probably won't come up in most games.

[keith.lamothe]

- The game clock reaches 2 hours.

Why is this one necessary?

Paranoia, mainly.  3 hours is fine.

[Faulty Logic]

Ok, thanks.

[TechSY730]

Hmm.  How about the offensive nemesis doesn't start until one of the below conditions is met:
- You start the first nebula.
- A champ reaches level 5.
- The game clock reaches 2 hours.

There are certain cheesemasters I don't trust not to exploit the absence of any of the above, you see.

This is fine. 3 hours would be fine too. That seems to allow room for the early game without allowing cheesing the AI, or at only some until the AI "picks-up" on it and starts fighting back, at which point it ceases being cheese.

[Toranth]

Hmm.  How about the offensive nemesis doesn't start until one of the below conditions is met:
- You start the first nebula.
- A champ reaches level 5.
- The game clock reaches 2 hours.

There are certain cheesemasters I don't trust not to exploit the absence of any of the above, you see.

Could you add the Heroic AI type's Nemesis spawn to this list, too?  (Not the ones with the waves, just the Threatfleet ones).

[contingencyplan]

- You start the first nebula.

Would changing this to "winning the first nebula," or at least 30 mins or so into the first nebula, permit a significant amount of cheese? Having the nemeses spawn immediately upon entry would likely unpleasantly surprise someone first trying out champions (I just imagine the champions coming out to a post-apocalyptic wasteland and wondering "what happened?"), especially given how micro-intensive some of the early scenarios are.

Also, if I luck into a nebula on my home planet, I'll sometimes decide to knock out the first scenario while I'm waiting on my initial fleet to get built. Wouldn't be the end of the world to lose that option, of course, but it's nice to have (since the nebulae are supposed to give you something more interesting to do than watch the ship count tick higher).


Edit: Another thought --- would a size vs spawn frequency tradeoff be possible / desirable? With the current setup, they seem (to me) to spawn with enough frequency that if you're not hunkered down pretty well by the 1 hour mark, it can turn into a game of whack-a-mole where you don't really get enough time to plug the holes they find in your defenses before they're knocking in another door, especially since all of your border worlds are fair game. Increasing the limit to 3 hours would give more time to hunker down, but the issue of having to have enough defenses on every border world remains.


Finally, would it be possible to add a warning message that champion nemeses are at a particular world (e.g., one with scout coverage)? Or is the "Surprise! RAIDING PARTY!" behavior intentional?

[TechSY730]

- You start the first nebula.

Would changing this to "winning the first nebula," or at least 30 mins or so into the first nebula, permit a significant amount of cheese? Having the nemeses spawn immediately upon entry would likely unpleasantly surprise someone first trying out champions (I just imagine the champions coming out to a post-apocalyptic wasteland and wondering "what happened?"), especially given how micro-intensive some of the early scenarios are.

Agree with making it upon win or N minutes, whichever comes first instead of merely entering it.

[contingencyplan]

Is the Exo Firepower and ship count broken?



At least a Black Widow Golem + Armor Golem = 1 massive, 0 FP ship?

[Bognor]

Normal AI reinforcements now have an "effective AIP cap" of (AIDifficulty^2)/2.

• So, for example, a Diff 7 AI's normal reinforcements will not increase from AIP increases past 245 (on Diff 8 it'd be 320, on Diff 9 405, and on Diff 10 500).

Keith, you're missing a *10 somewhere.  (7^2)/2 = 24.5, not 245.