Author Topic: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!  (Read 9858 times)

Offline Fealthas

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2013, 05:20:42 pm »
I think I may have found a bug with this release(or maybe I just didn't notice it before). This bug involves regeneration golems and ether-jet tractors. After 2 or so big battles with my regeneration golem, etherjet tractors are the only ships being rebuilt by space docks, as if the golem is not re-spawning them. Bug or intended?

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2013, 06:20:09 pm »
I think things with active tractor beams are immune to reclamation/regeneration because of the huge number of bugs that caused.

Speaking of bugs, the crystal-conversion hamsters don't appear to be working: in a few seconds in the save, my crystal will max out but my metal income will not increase.
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Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2013, 08:01:41 pm »
Speaking of bugs, the crystal-conversion hamsters don't appear to be working: in a few seconds in the save, my crystal will max out but my metal income will not increase.
Yup, I saw this one too.  A little sad, but MAN is it nice to have the other end working.  Half a Hamster is far better than none at all.

Except for the Hamster.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2013, 08:50:14 pm »
Although I could rant and rave that such a huge bug has basically really hurt the economy and this bug basically makes this a step back from economic management and how you could possibly let this through, except for the fact this is clearly labeled as BETA version. I asked for this kind of stuff, it just that it usually doesn't happen, but the warning clearly told me it could happen. ;)

Probably doesn't hurt that in my current early game, I have FAR more metal harvesters than crystal.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2013, 09:15:55 pm »
Quote
Yup, I saw this one too.  A little sad, but MAN is it nice to have the other end working.  Half a Hamster is far better than none at all.
Do you mean that the out-of-resources hamsters are working but not the excess-hamsters, or that the metal-hamsters are working, but not the crystal-hamsters?
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2013, 10:00:42 pm »
Quote
Yup, I saw this one too.  A little sad, but MAN is it nice to have the other end working.  Half a Hamster is far better than none at all.
Do you mean that the out-of-resources hamsters are working but not the excess-hamsters, or that the metal-hamsters are working, but not the crystal-hamsters?
The OOR Hamsters are doing a great job.  However, the Excess Resource hamsters appear to be slacking off, or consuming the excess resources as their paycheck, or something.  I've seen the issue with both excess metal and excess crystal (I've seen it producing both multi-caps of Maws and Mirrors, two extreme cases).

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2013, 10:03:50 pm »
Quote
Yup, I saw this one too.  A little sad, but MAN is it nice to have the other end working.  Half a Hamster is far better than none at all.
Do you mean that the out-of-resources hamsters are working but not the excess-hamsters, or that the metal-hamsters are working, but not the crystal-hamsters?

I think it's the crystal to metal conversion hamsters that aren't doing anything. (Possibly related to that bug with the metal logic in mantis?). No crystal is being converted into metal, no matter what. The metal to crystal conversion is working fine.

Maybe the AI hired a team of ninja gerbils to take out the crystal-to-metal converter hamsters?

Offline LordSloth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2013, 03:34:03 am »
Well, I'll make a half-hearted attempt at nitpicking trivialities to fill the void, like I often do.

I've scouted out an advanced starship constructor; it hasn't shown up on my objectives screen.

On some of my promised feedback, I've tried out both the Starfleet Commander and Mad Bomber AIs. They are serious contenders, though not enough to move them to the 'hard' category. The waves are fairly manageable (the starfleet commander ones a bit more interesting), but the biggest threat is planetary defenders. I'm a couple hours in on my current game (simple map, mk3 fighters) and doing fine. I did have one forty-minute game on an X map that ended with my death. I was hemmed in by two MKIV planets, three shields and mk2 fighters weren't sufficent to handle four mkIV Heavy Bomber Starships (tested on Standard, not Epic). The next and current game I was excessively cautious with six additional forcefields and mk3 fighters unlocked immediately. I haven't needed all that yet, and pared it down to  a mere four extra forcefields.

I've only colonized two additional systems, while spire civilian leaders have been ticking upward, but it's paid back in the locating of a Raid Engine next to a planet I'd been planning to Data Center raid, a data center I did raid, and formation of a solid plan for rapid expansion combined with a new whipping boy. Sadly, it looks like my 'decentralized' defense test isn't happening this game, but a couple Ion Cannons in a decent location are making for an attractive location to shift my whipping boy to and build actual defenses, when popping two-four systems radically increases the waves against me.

I've found an advanced starship constructor not far from my position, but I've not unlocked any starships at all. Between the AI heavily using Starships and not any *particular* bonus ships aside from Zenith Bombards (in entirely reasonable numbers so far, thanks to the patrol and reinforce spending and specialization), I'm at a loss of ideas for what to unlock to try it out, if I should unlock it at all. I do have medium golems enabled as well as Fallen Spire, but I don't see myself much using the Plasma Siege Line, compared to more forcefields.

Heavy Bombers, Zenith, Spire, Plasma Siege, Leech, and Flagship have all been rebalanced, and I should try them out before throwing the balance out the window with fallen spire. I haven't been facing large numbers of gravity or tractor units, so no immediate preference for the siege/bomber lines. I'll probably go with Zenith, Spire, or Flagship thanks to their radar dampening, and Zenith if I face a lot of cutlasses (i've seen a few). I could check the damage multiplier cap, but I'm not sure there is any practical way for the human player to hit 400%.

P.S. Missile posts murder the hell out of mk1 transports. At least when the transports are forced between a crossfire of two-three mk3 missile posts. This isn't exactly a bad thing, some make it through, and this will make transport drops more interesting and more strategic. If I can find a way, I'll even slot mk2 transports into my strategy to try them out. Given what I've seen so far, the additional HP should actually matter now, since they're dealing with posts, not just (often binary dead/notdead) threatballs. I exagerate a bit on how deadly they are, but they're able to focus fire longer than most anything else the AI has, and that 35% hp drop makes the transport a much softer target.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 03:37:11 am by LordSloth »

Offline Fealthas

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2013, 06:47:45 pm »
I think things with active tractor beams are immune to reclamation/regeneration because of the huge number of bugs that caused.

Oh, well that would explain it. I hope it gets fixed soon.

Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2013, 07:28:54 pm »
Quote
Yup, I saw this one too.  A little sad, but MAN is it nice to have the other end working.  Half a Hamster is far better than none at all.
Do you mean that the out-of-resources hamsters are working but not the excess-hamsters, or that the metal-hamsters are working, but not the crystal-hamsters?

I think it's the crystal to metal conversion hamsters that aren't doing anything. (Possibly related to that bug with the metal logic in mantis?). No crystal is being converted into metal, no matter what. The metal to crystal conversion is working fine.

Maybe the AI hired a team of ninja gerbils to take out the crystal-to-metal converter hamsters?
Hmm.  I have a saved game where Metal to Crystal is the one that isn't working.  However, on closer inspection, Crystal to Metal is working.

It seems like there's a minor display bug as well.  When there's underflow conversion, the rate numbers at the top of the screen correctly show the transfer rate.  However, when the Crystal to Metal is working, the numbers don't change.
I had the odd occurance of having a -1100 Metal flow, positive 4000 Crystal, and both numbers sitting capped at 999,999 (metal would occasionally drop to 999,998 for a second).


Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2013, 07:10:29 pm »
Quote from: Prerelease 6.014 Release Notes
On Diff 8+ the AI may now choose to delay a wave when there's a CPA already in the announcement box. Not that there'd be any particular reason for it to want to do that. No, not at all.

Of course not. It most certainly has nothing do to do with deliberately trying to set up unfortunate correlation of timings of multiple wave sources instead of just always relying on random chance to do so. *shifty eyes*

Offline Aeson

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2013, 07:52:53 pm »
Just to be clear, the change TechSY730 quoted is to try to make the wave attacks come in at roughly the same time as the CPA, right? Rather than being part of an insidious plan to help reduce processor load by keeping the number of ships attacking at once down?

The sentence doesn't really make it clear which way the delay goes. Given that it was inspired by Faulty Logic and is for difficulty 8+, I'd guess that it would be the "everything attacks together" version, since that would tend to make things harder, but I just want to be certain.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2013, 08:38:19 pm »
Basically if a wave would come in before 30 seconds after the announced cpa, it delays it to 30 seconds after the announced cpa.  The idea being that it takes a moment for CPAs to really get moving, so not just tossing the wave into the chipper shredder before the other guys are close enough to follow-up.  Of course, 30 seconds may be too soon, dunno.

If you're curious, the delay does not expand the wave size like normal increases to wave interval do.
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2013, 12:07:23 am »
Quote
CPAs have been made a bit more ferocious in some circumstances on diff 10 (with a lesser impact on other greater-than-9 difficulties).
That doesn't sound so bad. Of course, you tend to hide the nastiest changes behind innocent patch notes, so you could mean a bit shift.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Bill Whitmore

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Re: AI War Beta 6.013 "Core Foamhammer" Released!
« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2013, 12:59:04 am »
I ran into a problem with a Remains Rebuilder in my current game.

I had captured a world and built a Command Station, Shield, a pair of Mini Fortresses and an Energy Collector.  Before too long, the AI destroyed it while I was fighting off an incursion against my Homeworld.  Once everything had settled down, I sent a fleet back out to clear and recapture the other world and I sent along a Remains Rebuilder and some engineers to patch things up.

This is where I ran into problems.  It rebuilt the remains of the Command Center without problem, but then it tried to rebuild the Mini Fortress.  The problem was, I lacked the power to replace those without the Energy Collector being rebuilt first.  I tried to manually target the Rebuilder by selecting it and right clicking the Energy Collector, but that didn't work, it still tried to rebuild the Mini Fortress first.  I eventually had to fly the Remains Rebuilder away from the Mini Fortress until it was out of range and the Energy Collector was just within the edge of its range to get it to actually rebuild the Energy Collector.

Would it be possible to raise the priority the Remains Rebuilders places on Energy Collectors, perhaps to be just behind the Command Centers?