Author Topic: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!  (Read 21193 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« on: March 05, 2013, 12:04:50 pm »
(Crossposted from this blog post)

This one starts addressing some longstanding requests related to champion balance and answers the most recent "worst unit" poll where the game's least impactful units get shamed into some kind of improvement.

#1 in the poll were the AI's normal guard posts.  The core ones that protect the AI homeworlds (and particularly the "brutal-pick" posts) are plenty nasty enough, but their normal brethren... well, most of them really didn't matter much.  Now they'll at least be getting more kills.  (Note from testing: when driving a spire starship, do not park next to a MkIV Arachnid post.)

Tied for first was the decoy drone, which had a very small cap for the human player and an antiquated health value.  Now if you have a decoy fabricator it's much easier to field enough decoys (and durable-enough decoys) that they'll survive at least the opening phase of a battle.

Third place was the Spire starship.  Not all that long ago the Spire and Zenith starships were redone as separate starship lines and largely re-imagined.  Well, people missed the high-mark versions and in general didn't find the new ones very compelling.  So they've been "promoted" up one tech level and condensed into stronger individual units.  There's also some straight-up buffs, and the Spire's beam now cycles over 3x faster (with correspondingly lower damage, but easier to get a higher % of optimium damage now).  The Zenith starship was included in this because it was just 1 vote below the Spire in the poll and their fates are kind of intertwined.

On the champions: feedback's been coming in for a while that paints kind of a strange picture.  For some, champions made the game extremely easy even with the 20%-of-a-normal-player boost to many forms of AI threat (and lower boosts to stuff like exos, etc).  For others, those same threat increases made champions simply nonviable, and in some cases downright lethal (to the wrong side).  Also, the "nemesis" mechanic that built up the AI HW defenses if you advanced to a really powerful champion while still in low AIP didn't have any offensive component, so it was still fairly cheesable.  

So now the "nemesis" mechanic has a couple offensive manifestations and thus when you fly champions you'll be facing AI champions here and there (hopefully, exactly where you wish you weren't facing them).  These are just frigate-sized champions, though, enemy versions of the bigger hulls are still only found through the Heroic AI type (which is still taking applicants for the next human to crush, by the way).  Accordingly, human champions no longer boost other threats.  We may have gone a little easy on the balance of these new counterbalances, but the pain can be cranked up as needed.

A few other fixes and changes round out the update.  Notably, you can nuke carriers again.  Have fun with that.

Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 12:11:45 pm »
Ohh..... new starships!!

You really don't want me finishing that Fallen Spire game do you?  ;D

I've been intending to do a starship only game for a while and I think this will make that more viable, but we'll see (when I get around to it anyways, I am going to finish my Fallen Spire game first.)

D.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 12:16:16 pm »
Quote
Notably, you can nuke carriers again
Thank you >D
The other changes look good, too.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Poko

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 12:52:27 pm »
Wow, that was a very fast new ideas-to-beta release process! 

Noob question - I'm assuming it's not save-game compatible?  So if I upgrade, I won't be able to load old save games?  Or I will, but they'll be using the old rules?

Thanks!


Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 12:56:38 pm »
You'll definitely be able to load old saves. The changes should all occur immediately.
And welcome to the forums.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Poko

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 12:59:50 pm »
You'll definitely be able to load old saves. The changes should all occur immediately.
And welcome to the forums.

Great, thanks!

Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 01:14:02 pm »
Noob question - I'm assuming it's not save-game compatible?  So if I upgrade, I won't be able to load old save games?  Or I will, but they'll be using the old rules?

Save games are certainly compatible, you can load and keep playing all your games.

Note that the new stats and rules all take effect immediately, but are not retroactive.

In other words, the count and type of units on the map do not change, just the statistics and rules that apply to them.

So all the guardposts on the map will have the new statistics they got this patch, while the number of enclaves will not decrease even though the spawning rate for those has been seriously reduced in the patch also.

I make a note of this because when the great starship rebalance went in (patch 5.075?) and their energy costs increased, I loaded my starship heavy game up and was in energy blackout from that.  :-\

D.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 01:19:32 pm »
Now that settles it. As soon as I finish my first game (that might take a while...), I'm starting a new one with a champion. I'm curious to see this Nemesis system in action.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 02:01:23 pm »
Wow, that was a very fast new ideas-to-beta release process!
It was actually several days later than I'd intended because of another project and various other life pressures, but yea, it's faster than most people are used to.  Welcome to the forums :)

Quote
Noob question - I'm assuming it's not save-game compatible?
Assuming we haven't broken anything since the 6.0 official, I believe saves from the original pre-1.0 alpha will still load successfully :)  The balance and so on will be waaaaaaay different (you may start in an economically untenable situation, particularly related to energy), but it will load and run.  I think insane save-compatibility is one of Chris's hobbies ;)
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 03:19:41 pm »
Why is there a nemesis when I don't have a champion?
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 04:03:43 pm »
Why is there a nemesis when I don't have a champion?
Maybe the game assumed that you always play with champions? :)

For 6.012:
Quote
* Fixed a bug in the previous version where the AI could get a single (non-respawning) offensive nemesis champion even if the human players had no champions.
I may put that out as a hotfix soon, though I'd like to see if any other nasties manifest themselves first.
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 04:05:57 pm »
Ok, if its just one it's not a big deal. Though it did cause game loss the first time it showed up (energy brownouts + CPA attacking homeworld = dead).
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 04:23:09 pm »
Ok, if its just one it's not a big deal.
Yea, it's just the dirty tricks logic getting its first tick shortly after the 1-hour mark, and it pays its costs after spending them rather than before (so the cost is more of a "cooldown" and thus higher-cost stuff can happen without the lower-cost stuff triggering before the bank gets big enough for the higher stuff), so since the balance starts at zero it can buy one threatfleet (or one SF) nemesis before going permanently on cooldown.

Quote
Though it did cause game loss the first time it showed up (energy brownouts + CPA attacking homeworld = dead).
Well, it may be a bug, but at least it accomplished something worthwhile ;)
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Offline Winge

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 05:36:57 pm »
Quote
Special Forces Guard Post: also didn't need a buff (the SF ships are the important part of SF, really), but these no longer count for purposes of the "if no AI guard posts are present, an AI Eye self-destructs" rule.

Thank you!!!  :)
My other bonus ship is a TARDIS.

Offline Poko

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Re: AI War Beta 6.011 "Nemesis of the Dubious Honor" Released!
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 05:51:10 pm »
So I loaded up my game, saw that I had 4 of all three tiers of spire starships and that their damage was amazing now, and was really excited!!  Then I met a MkIV Arachnid Guard Post.  I don't have 12 anymore :(