Author Topic: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!  (Read 20128 times)

Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2013, 01:40:33 pm »
If the planet doesn't have an eye, you can use cloakers (possibly w/transports) to get your fleet in close. If you have spire minirams, a full cap of them I-IV can take it out. If you have a miniram V fab, you can make a couple runs with those.

There is also the wave after wave (continued a long time) of teleporting ships.

Moving around the beams can work for fast ships near the lance. Moving through the beams helps minimize damage.

The beams only hit the first thing, so a cap of transports can absorb a lot of the pain.

If you post a save, I can give more specific advice.

Cloaking works? My tests showed it didn't.

* Diazo wanders off a second.

Oh. Looks like the re-cloak timer after firing applies to it, 8 to 10 seconds after the last ship leaves the AI's detection, the beams shut off. I was using cheats so I never gave it that long before spawning a new ship.

No mini rams unfortunately. Zenith AutoBombs though, those might be effective from a resource benefit ratio if I cap get the cap in to attack.

I can't spawn transports to check, but will they actually meat shield? Mk I transport only have 4 million HP, a single pass of the beam was vaporizing 280 million health worth of Spirecraft Shieldbearers in a single pass. I will go try it regardless.

I'll actually conduct my experiments after lunch, but the cloaking sounds promising. Thanks for the assist on that.

D.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2013, 06:30:15 pm »
I thought frigates were immune to aoe? Probably still not the best way anyway.

I think the advice I usually give is to spam transports and bombers at it until it dies, more than anything else. its a lot of hp, but not very much regen.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2013, 07:19:41 pm »
Frigates are immune to AoE, but the Wrath Lance is not AoE.

The beams only damage the first target they hit, that is why transports can soak for targets hidden in their shadow behind them.

Anyways, for the record:

Cap Mk 1-4 Teleport Raiders: No damage. WTF?
Apparently, when you give Teleporting units a Right-Click attack order on a unit, they teleport on top of the center of that unit and then the "unstack" logic proceeds.
However, when all 4 beams of the Wrath Lance cross in it's center, not a single raider survived to get a shot off.

Cap Mk 1-4 Teleport Raiders (Try 2): Okay. Manually moving them next to the wrath lance, and then giving the attack order actually works better then I expect. I have not cleaned the rest of the system up, but the raiders do 12% damage before dying. I think I could get that up to 15% damage if I cleaned the other stuff up?

Cap Mk 1-4 Teleport Raiders (Try 3): Cleaned up the system some, looks like I got 17% damage done to the wrath lance in exchange for losing all my raiders (640 ships).

Repeat this sacrifice of 640 teleport raiders and I get it down. (It was about 25% damage done for the next waves to kill it.)

The biggest thing seems to be that luck plays a big factor. Despite the graphic, the beams don't quite cover the screen. I'd have about 50 teleport raiders the wrath lance could not kill, it was the strategic reserve that spawned fighters that actually finished my waves of raiders off.

This actually is more painful then I'm making it sound. The wrath lance is most of the way across the system from my entry wormhole. Anything that can't teleport would eat 3 wrath lance passes as it closed.

That's what cloaking is for of course, but cloaking the equivalent Mk I-IV bombers would be 384 ships. I don't think transport hopping the bombers in would work. Unloading them would activate the wrath lances and if you use the wrath lance to destroy the transport to unload automatically, I suspect you would lose a lot of the bombers the transport was carrying because the leading edge would destroy the transport, leaving the trailing edge of the beam to destroy the bombers just unloaded.

Also, replacing a cap of teleport raiders is only about 60% the resources of replacing the same cap of bombers. My economy is screaming badly enough about throwing away raiders like this, I don't want to think how long bombers would take to rebuild.

So, my suggested changes on the Wrath Lance would be as follows:

Drop the health to 80 million or so. Once you've figured out how to destroy the wrath lance, it becomes a grind. I sat there waiting until my raiders were rebuilt, then gave them an attack order, then waited until the next wave built.

The other suggestion is to slow down the speed of the rotation. That would remove the gaps where the beam turns that just randomly leaves ships alive, but would also give ships more time to do something before the wrath lance came around and destroyed them.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on the subject.

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2013, 10:49:25 am »
Thanks for the feedback on the new brutal posts :)  Yea, the wrath lance definitely has a shock factor the first time you face one, as in "Oh, sh-(ock)" ;)

Dropping their health to make it more of a "once you solve the puzzle, it doesn't take long to complete" situation is probably a good idea, as is toning down the actual danger slightly (lower lifetime and somewhat lower count on teuthida drones, somewhat slower rotation on wrath lance).
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2013, 10:57:20 am »
Dropping their health to make it more of a "once you solve the puzzle, it doesn't take long to complete" situation is probably a good idea, as is toning down the actual danger slightly (lower lifetime and somewhat lower count on teuthida drones, somewhat slower rotation on wrath lance).

Agree on the Wrath Lance, on the Teuthida I'm torn though.

Once I had broken in, the drones felt right, it was just that wall upon entry where I got swarmed by a couple hundred drones that was a problem.

Maybe drop drone life to 30 seconds? That's more then enough time for them to cross the system and does not allow for as many to stack up to stomp the players fleet when it warps in.

D.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2013, 12:18:52 pm »
Are you positive it is spawning drones with just a scout in the system?  I'm almost positive it not only stopped spawning even when I had a scout, but even stopped spawning when I had cloaked military ships in system.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2013, 01:18:26 pm »
Scouts definitely trigger both Teuthida and Grav reactor drones, but the Wrath Lance remains passive.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2013, 02:00:10 pm »
It has been a long time since I've played AI War last time and the game is still broken. No new patches. Ancient Shadows didn't sell well enough so it's not worth it to use time on AI War anymore? Should have thought about what I said about the trailers. Also where can I download old versions of AI War?
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2013, 02:13:39 pm »
@Kahuna: More like the crunch to meet the Valley 2 ship date of the 18th. (A week from this post.)

Keith has still been active on the AI War forum here and I would expect the next patch for AI War by the 25th.

He has all but outright stated their are changes coming to address the balance issues, he just does not have time to work on them at the moment.

As for the old versions, those still exist on the update server somewhere and you can manually download them. Chris has posted the links before for people have issues with the automatic updater but I don't know the link off the top of my head.

@Hearteater: Yes, the drones spawn as long as there is any ship in the system, even just scouts. If you zoom in on the teuthida you can see the drones for an instant after they spawn before their cloak engages.

D.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #99 on: February 11, 2013, 02:17:06 pm »
Very odd, because I distinctly remember waiting 4 minutes in system for them all to die.  I think I still have the save, so I'll try and see what I was doing.  Maybe I did actually pull out completely for 4 minutes.  It's been awhile since I tested it.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #100 on: February 11, 2013, 02:22:17 pm »
It has been a long time since I've played AI War last time and the game is still broken.
No, you're exaggerating :)  Some things need doing, but they do not a broken game make.

Quote
No new patches.
As I said a bit earlier in the thread:

I'm sorry, but my personal life is very busy right now (work hours have been about 1/3rd of usual over the past month, I'd guess) and Valley2's planned release is in the next 2 weeks.  Not enough of me to go around to make AIW work happen.  And Chris is even busier.

As for "most obvious imbalances" the main thing right now would be the roaming enclaves which aren't Ancient-Shadows.  There's also a general consensus that the strategic reserves (a base-game mechanic, not AS) need some kind of nerf.  And I'd agree that the new AS core guard posts need to be moderated somewhat.  I'm not seeing a consensus on the other imbalances people have brought up; doesn't mean they don't need something done (some additional counterbalance for champions, notably) but at least that means they're not "obvious".


Anyway, we'll get back to this in time, this just isn't a good time ;)

Quote
Ancient Shadows didn't sell well enough so it's not worth it to use time on AI War anymore?
It sold fine.  Arcen recouped its costs on it during the initial sale week on steam, and with this last promotional sale I've made back my costs (time) on it too.


There was a similar multi-month lull in AIW development towards the end of AVWW1's dev cycle.  This is not the first time this has happened, it's just the first one you've seen.
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Offline irakli111

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Bug in UI ! Please solve it! Please!
« Reply #101 on: February 12, 2013, 03:16:37 pm »
When I press MAP button and choose Galaxy map it works fine only first time! Than it works only if you press the upper half of Galaxy map button. If you press on lower half it works "through" the Galaxy map button. Please solve it!

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #102 on: February 12, 2013, 03:46:48 pm »
Quote
When I press MAP button and choose Galaxy map it works fine only first time! Than it works only if you press the upper half of Galaxy map button. If you press on lower half it works "through" the Galaxy map button. Please solve it!
Huh. Never noticed this one. We normally put interface bugs on the Mantis page. Until this is fixed, you can press the TAB key to switch between planetary and galactic view (and afterwards, too, its much easier).

Also, welcome to the forums.
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Offline irakli111

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2013, 08:55:58 am »
Thank you! I have already wrote about this bug on Mantis... So, i am looking forward this to be fixed!

Offline Hearteater

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Re: AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2013, 10:53:56 am »
Some things need doing...
Speaking of, also check into the Core Eye spawning, because some small sampling suggests they are spawning too often.  See my analysis here with correction on the sample data.