AI War Beta 6.007-6.009 "Burying The Hatchet" Released!

[Ragnarok]

Hum so when will Arcen be back from vacation so we can expect fixed for the "obvious" balancing issues at hand ?

[keith.lamothe]

Hum so when will Arcen be back from vacation so we can expect fixed for the "obvious" balancing issues at hand ?

You mean the roaming enclave balancing thing?  Or something else?

I've been back to work for a couple weeks now, just haven't had the mental energy to split my attention between Valley2 and AIW.

[Ragnarok]

No, i was more referring to the problem with strategic reserves and the fact that certain homeworld picks seem to be vastly overpowered. In addition, the imbalances that emerge once you mix the balanced base game with ancient shadows in general and of course the new ships introduced in AS.
Like, maybe you can read 10 minutes in this thread of mine, if you havent already. It gives youa pretty good scope of what several players, including good ones, find lacking.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12176.0.html

[TechSY730]

No, i was more referring to the problem with strategic reserves and the fact that certain homeworld picks seem to be vastly overpowered. In addition, the imbalances that emerge once you mix the balanced base game with ancient shadows in general and of course the new ships introduced in AS.
Like, maybe you can read 10 minutes in this thread of mine, if you havent already. It gives youa pretty good scope of what several players, including good ones, find lacking.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12176.0.html

Of note, near the end of the thread, there is some evidence that Core Eye chances still seem to be messed up some (aka, spawning much more frequently than they probably should be), which if true, is compounding the issue.

[keith.lamothe]

No, i was more referring to the problem with strategic reserves and the fact that certain homeworld picks seem to be vastly overpowered. In addition, the imbalances that emerge once you mix the balanced base game with ancient shadows in general and of course the new ships introduced in AS.
Like, maybe you can read 10 minutes in this thread of mine, if you havent already. It gives youa pretty good scope of what several players, including good ones, find lacking.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12176.0.html

Yea, I think that's similar feedback to what I saw before the break, including which players are holding which positions.  Bear in mind that a player can be very good at the game but also be inclined to substantial exaggeration in feedback

Strategic reserves could stand a change; I think mainly in recharging more slowly (though I want to make sure they're full for the first attack at least).

On the new brutal guard posts, I think the ones new to AS (grav reactor, squid, wrath) could be toned down a bit, but my main question for each of them is still: would you rather fight a Core Raid Engine?  Why or why not?

[chemical_art]

On the new brutal guard posts, I think the ones new to AS (grav reactor, squid, wrath) could be toned down a bit, but my main question for each of them is still: would you rather fight a Core Raid Engine?  Why or why not?

This is very much a opinion poll:

Which AI is more entertaining? Mad bomber or turtle?

The old core picks made the actual assault on the AI HW not any harder, but gave the package that an offense attack was coming.

The new core picks made the actual assault on the AI HW much, much harder, but do nothing else.

It seems a matter of opinion.

For example I dread the new AS picks because they don't make the long term game harder, just longer (throwing waves of ships until they die) . But others will say the old core posts made for a very sharp spike in short term pain but long term were nothing because you killed them on the first assault.

[Faulty Logic]

I like the special forces, strategic reserve, and homeworlds as they are now.

Brutal post breakdown from hardest down:

Eyes:  They prevent stealth operations, and make sledgehammer-lobbing inefficient.
Wrath lance:  Any small fleet quickly disappears. Big ones take a little longer.
Raid engine: A wave is bad news in the endgame.
Teuthida: a lot of dps, but can be countered with scout starships and/or reclamation immunity.
Grav reactor: raids will be one-way, but little impact on the final battle.
CPA post: launches wimpy cpas after 10 whole minutes. Pretty much ignorable.

The champion balance still needs something offensive for the AI, but is close to right.

Some ship types need to be looked at (Zombards, TDLs, and swarmers).

We still get duplicate scenarios.

Allied enclaves need work (should be highest priority: game balance problems are bad enough, these cause lag).

And 10/10 needs more pain dispensers.

[keith.lamothe]

On the new brutal guard posts, I think the ones new to AS (grav reactor, squid, wrath) could be toned down a bit, but my main question for each of them is still: would you rather fight a Core Raid Engine?  Why or why not?

This is very much a opinion poll:

Which AI is more entertaining? Mad bomber or turtle?

Right, and that in itself is an answer (in fact, the one I was looking for) : if the Teuthida (or other AS posts) were super overwhelmingly OP, then it wouldn't really be a matter of opinion, it would be "I'd rather fight a CRE, unless I was feeling masochistic".

Doesn't mean they don't need an adjustment, but it does help put the matter in perspective.


And yea, the roaming enclaves need to not assault your CPU (it looked like an AI, honest!).

[Hearteater]

Trains probably need to be tweaked downward.  Even at 4 they are pretty brutal.  I'm not certain at 10 they are reasonable at all.  I keep meaning to try a 1/1 game with Trains at 10 and see if it is even winnable.  My gut feeling is they are off by 2 points.  So 4 feels like what 6 should.  And 8 like what 10 should.  In addition, the double-whammy cargo-train surprises of 8 compared to 7 should get split between 8 and 9.

[Faulty Logic]

Even at 4 they are pretty brutal.

4 for one AI or both?

[chemical_art]

@Keith

I wasn't saying the two had any sort of parity. Only that asking 4 parity is a fruitless activity. you can find dozens of example of on sides of the issue both of which are valid. someone like a duel game that was like a tool that would be very intense and short term. others what are for to take their time over hours to take apart a perfect defense.

my issue is that the new court guard posts basically lockdown all but a very narrow set of tactics on your own. the problem is that when 2 or more of these posts interact with each other. the result is that a tactic that would work on 1 guard posts would not work on another guard post. the result is an exercise in frustrationce

[chemical_art]

sorry about that but post the results of my mobile phone. context clues are your friends

[Faulty Logic]

Would a "possible brutal pick" list satisfy all parties?

[Eternaly_Lost]

I agree that special force need a change. Two in fact. It first needs it that as special force guard posts go away, the rate of spawn and caps to go down. Second, it needs to not stick special forces into carriers so quickly and aggressively. I pop one, and almost instantly the ships are back in the carrier at full health pounding away at my ships again. I had special force take take out the initial push by the End Game Fallen Spire fleet, and well they do eventually get though it, I would have hated to try and do it myself.

Although that does explain why when I spent as much as MK5 Ion cannon in Spire Fleet ships, they did not seem to make a dent on that world that lead to the other AI homeworld. Something about 40,000 MKV guardians in Carriers makes about anything roll over and die.

[Hearteater]

Would a "possible brutal pick" list satisfy all parties?

I don't really like that option.  Why not a "possible Guardian pick" list?  Then a "possible bonus ship pick list"?  Eventually, we're specifying everything the AI has.  I'd rather they just get balanced.  Although honestly I don't think they are that far off.  I mentioned in Ragnarok's thread what changes the Teuthida post could use to put it into a more reasonable position.  And honestly, those are really just to help deal with the Core Eye + Teuthida situation.  Which hopefully would be helped by fixing the apparent issue with over-spawning of Core Eyes.