Poll

Which minor factions do you use?

Human Marauders
23 (5.3%)
Human Resistance
42 (9.6%)
Human Colony Rebellions
26 (5.9%)
Zenith Traders
38 (8.7%)
Zenith Miners
7 (1.6%)
Zenith Dyson Sphere
42 (9.6%)
Zenith Devourer
18 (4.1%)
Broken Golems (any difficulty)
45 (10.3%)
Botnet Golem (any difficulty)
33 (7.6%)
Neinzul Rocketry Corps
9 (2.1%)
Neinzul Preservation Wardens
14 (3.2%)
Neinzul Roaming Enclaves
19 (4.3%)
Fallen Spire
39 (8.9%)
Spire Civilian Leaders
22 (5%)
Spirecraft (any difficulty)
37 (8.5%)
Dark Spire
23 (5.3%)
I don't use minor factions at all
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 01:04:30 pm »
Quote from: zoutzakje on November 01, 2012, 08:51:08 am
I don't get it, how can the Miners cause the most pain? From all the bad stuff happening caused by minor factions, these are on of the easiest to deal with. Or is that the whole point? Personally I think 30 mins is at least 15 mins more time than you need to deal with them in most cases.

Because they're so random in placement 30 minutes may not be enough time to drill yourself a deepstrike hole to even reach them, particularly in the early game.
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 01:14:24 pm »
but all the miners spawn at or adjacent to one of your worlds. If you just neuter stuff like you're supposed to, the miners are no issue at all
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 01:14:42 pm »
There was no deepstrike rule when they were first introduced, right?

I usually have Spirecraft on but never on Hard because I almost never actually build them. Only built two pairs of MkI scouts in my current game because I tried hiding unexplored planets for a change and auto-explore is too diffuse for scouting with any form of resistance while concentrated move orders are made much clunkier by the inability to waypoint a wormhole while your scouts are on another planet.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 01:17:32 pm »
Quote from: zoutzakje on November 01, 2012, 01:14:24 pm
but all the miners spawn at or adjacent to one of your worlds. If you just neuter stuff like you're supposed to, the miners are no issue at all

Erm.  um.  I thought they were an anywhere spawn.  The one time I played them I was on a 120 world snake map, so I didn't really see how they functioned like that.

Erm... Um... yeah.  Look, a kitten with string!
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 01:36:37 pm »
My current game the first Miner spawn at 3 hours was 4 hops, 4 hops and 8 hops away.  Those are 4, 4 and 8 enemy systems I'd need to cross to stop them.  And for reference, I'm playing on Tree and I think the largest hop distance from my homeworld is 11.
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Offline relmz32

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 02:25:15 pm »
Quote from: Wanderer on November 01, 2012, 01:17:32 pm

Erm... Um... yeah.  Look, a kitten with string!

It's a Kitty! i love kitties.

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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 02:47:59 pm »
As usual, I added those I have used at any point.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 02:56:37 pm »
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 04:30:16 pm »
It might be just me, but I'm finding Spire Corvettes just a bit too weak.

Compare them to their closest starship, the spire starship.

A spire corvette MK I with upgraded shields and lasers has 2.4 million cap health and a base of 141k damage with a potential of 228k damage against its bonused targets at the cost of 4.5K (you can half that due to having the base units as well, so for effectiveness sake I go with 2K cost.)

A spire starship MK I has 1.6 million health cap with a universal damage of 480k for the cost of 1k, with gravity immunity and radar dampening.

A zenith starship has 2.4 million health cap with universal damage of 100k and a potential damage of 400k with radar dampening.

[This is comparing to the spire starship]
For me, the spire corvette just doesn't have enough of a clear advantage for a bonus ship. It has a 50% health advantage if you sink K into shields, but it has worst dps and lack of range or radar dampening cuts into the health advatage bad. It gets really bad once you get into the II range for the modules cost 13k on top of the 2.5k for the ship itself. Even with the advantage of extra defenses, the raw K needed really, really gimps a ship that is meant to be decesively better to begin with, and shouldn't have to rely on top of the line external upgrades to achieve parity (let alone superiority).

[This is for the zenith starship]
The results here are even worst. The Zenith Starship has the same health as the corvettes cap wise, but with radar dampening. The zenith starship has a lower base dps, but is more reliable (spire lances are fickle against moving targets) and has a much higher absolute max dps. Never mind the zenith starship needs 1k to achieve this, while the spire corvette needs 2k (4.5k absolute, get down due to other benefits). Again, the K cost disparity between the two craft rises sharply at the II range.


I'm just not feelin these corvettes compared to normal starships. They do about the same cap wise, and they cost a good 40% M +C  more as well cap wise.

Wrong thread  :o
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:29:53 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline ZaneWolfe

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2012, 08:58:25 pm »
Can someone add a tic for the Dyson Sphere? I forgot to check it when I made my vote.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 09:10:01 pm »
Quote from: Wanderer on November 01, 2012, 01:04:30 pm
Quote from: zoutzakje on November 01, 2012, 08:51:08 am
I don't get it, how can the Miners cause the most pain? From all the bad stuff happening caused by minor factions, these are on of the easiest to deal with. Or is that the whole point? Personally I think 30 mins is at least 15 mins more time than you need to deal with them in most cases.

Because they're so random in placement 30 minutes may not be enough time to drill yourself a deepstrike hole to even reach them, particularly in the early game.

This, and it is literally a negative sum game.

There is no way for the option to have a benefit. And if you lose you get a very nasty aip econ hit and a lost planet for supply, and if you "win" you buy a little time as you lick your wounds from a deepstrike and the ai response.

Some things are a negative sum game, but don't cause aip or econ lost in any way (hybrids). Some do cause an aip hit but provide a benefit (rebel colonies). Miners have the nasty position of both the big negatives.

If miners had a side chance for a benefit, say, miners that somehow mine asteroids instead of planets  (which in term can somehow give resources to the player) but the ai does notice them so the player must protect them, or if the miners somehow hurt the ai in any way aside from lost supply, then I think miners would get a lot more attention.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 09:13:13 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Atomikkrab

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2012, 09:44:09 pm »
Quote from: relmz32 on November 01, 2012, 02:25:15 pm
Quote from: Wanderer on November 01, 2012, 01:17:32 pm

Erm... Um... yeah.  Look, a kitten with string!

It's a Kitty! i love kitties.



FOOL do not give the AI actionable intelligence like that. Otherwise we will see a kitten guardian.

I use everything but rocketry once in a while at least. Rocketry is just THERE IS NO WAY TO SHUT THEM OFF if I want that planet, and they invariably spawn somewhere I want.
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Offline Niwantaw

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2012, 10:48:40 pm »
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: Poll: Which minor factions do you use?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2012, 11:17:58 pm »
Quote from: Hearteater on November 01, 2012, 01:36:37 pm
My current game the first Miner spawn at 3 hours was 4 hops, 4 hops and 8 hops away.  Those are 4, 4 and 8 enemy systems I'd need to cross to stop them.  And for reference, I'm playing on Tree and I think the largest hop distance from my homeworld is 11.

Seriously? Has their been a recent change to them or something? I've always played with miners on ever since I started AI war and they have always spawned on or adjacent to one of my planets, without exception. Yeah, if they can actually spawn further into enemy territory than that, I can imagine them being a huge annoyance.
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