AI War Beta 5.091-5.092 "Apply MkII Sanding Machine" Released!

[rabican]

MK III mil command stations have bit of a problem now. They paralyze, but don't translocate paralyzed targets. So they shoot same stuff over and over again until they are dead.

[Cinth]

I'm not seeing this in my current game. I've had a Mk III MC knockback ships (a handful of Raid SS) until they were dead. So as far as I can tell, they are working for me.

[rabican]

They do not knockback paralyzed ships, raid SS don't get paralyzed so knockback works fine on those.

[chemical_art]

One problem of unlimited station caps:

Since the MK II non econ comm station makes more then a lvl 1 econ, and you can't spam unlimited mk II econs, it is more efficient if you don't plan to spend more then 3k knowledge into command stations to just get the II's (military of logistic) and spam them everywhere.

And if you get threes...they are better then II econ stations in resources, so again if you plan on getting III and don't plan on paying for III econ stations might as well to just get the III station itself and spam them everywhere.

[Wanderer]

MK III mil command stations have bit of a problem now. They paralyze, but don't translocate paralyzed targets. So they shoot same stuff over and over again until they are dead.

They'll only push the ships back to about 2k under the max range of the command center.

[Toranth]

I've been playing around with the Strategic Reserve, and noticed something strange - It only seems to go down when being used for CPAs.  Normal deployment does not cause it to reduce.  In fact, it goes UP.
Other oddities include the fact that it can go over 100% strength, and that it doesn't seem to have any restrictions on the types of ships it can spawn.

Here's a section from my SpecialForcesLogicLog.txt:

Code: [Select]

10/12/2012 7:12:52 AM (5.092)
-----------------------------------
Strategic Reserve Logic check; Game Time: 13:30:42
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 8
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 9
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
**Doing Strategic Reserve Deployment to Felucia
maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent = 0.3
playerMaxStrategicReserve = 12413.83
playerCurrentStoredReserve = 9881.93 (79.6%)
existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet = 0
strengthToSpawn = Min(playerCurrentStoredReserve,( playerMaxStrategicReserve * maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent ) - existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet) = 3721.73
allocating 0.16 out of 1 (584.25 strength) for role: None , eligible types:CoreBattleCruiser, CoreDrone, CoreArmorShip, CoreRaider, CoreDemonHand, CoreAstroPlane, CorePredator, CoreGrenadeLauncher, CoreZenithMirror, CoreZenithParalyzer, CoreZenithPolarizer, CoreImpulseReactionEmitter, CoreSpireArmorRotter, CoreSpireGravityRipper, CoreSpireMaw, CoreSpireMiniRam, CoreZenithMedicFrigate, CoreNeinzulScapegoat, CoreSpireRailcluster, CoreYounglingFirefly, CoreSaboteur
Stopping here because expected AI population of planet is now >= 4000
actually bought:
Grand total: 0 ships, 0 strength
Remaining reserve: 9881.93 out of 12413.83 (79.6%)





10/12/2012 7:13:12 AM (5.092)
-----------------------------------
Strategic Reserve Logic check; Game Time: 13:31:59
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 8
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 9
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
**Doing Strategic Reserve Deployment to Felucia
maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent = 0.3
playerMaxStrategicReserve = 12413.83
playerCurrentStoredReserve = 10026.76 (80.77%)
existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet = 0
strengthToSpawn = Min(playerCurrentStoredReserve,( playerMaxStrategicReserve * maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent ) - existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet) = 3721.73
allocating 0.16 out of 1 (584.25 strength) for role: None , eligible types:CoreBattleCruiser, CoreDrone, CoreArmorShip, CoreRaider, CoreDemonHand, CoreAstroPlane, CorePredator, CoreGrenadeLauncher, CoreZenithMirror, CoreZenithParalyzer, CoreZenithPolarizer, CoreImpulseReactionEmitter, CoreSpireArmorRotter, CoreSpireGravityRipper, CoreSpireMaw, CoreSpireMiniRam, CoreZenithMedicFrigate, CoreNeinzulScapegoat, CoreSpireRailcluster, CoreYounglingFirefly, CoreSaboteur
Stopping here because expected AI population of planet is now >= 4000
actually bought:
Grand total: 0 ships, 0 strength
Remaining reserve: 10026.76 out of 12413.83 (80.77%)






10/12/2012 7:13:18 AM (5.092)
-----------------------------------
Strategic Reserve Logic check; Game Time: 13:32:21
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 8
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
*Computing MaxStrategicReserve for player 9
baseStrengthFactor = 19.8
specialDifficultyFactor = Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier (based on difficulty, homeworld count, handicap) = 19
effectiveAIP = 33
maxStrategicReserve = baseStrengthFactor * difficultyFactor * effectiveAIP = 12413.83
**Doing Strategic Reserve Deployment to Felucia
maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent = 0.3
playerMaxStrategicReserve = 12413.83
playerCurrentStoredReserve = 10171.59 (81.94%)
existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet = 0
strengthToSpawn = Min(playerCurrentStoredReserve,( playerMaxStrategicReserve * maxAllowedReserveDeploymentPercent ) - existingStrategicReservesStrengthOnPlanet) = 3721.73
allocating 0.16 out of 1 (584.25 strength) for role: None , eligible types:CoreBattleCruiser, CoreDrone, CoreArmorShip, CoreRaider, CoreDemonHand, CoreAstroPlane, CorePredator, CoreGrenadeLauncher, CoreZenithMirror, CoreZenithParalyzer, CoreZenithPolarizer, CoreImpulseReactionEmitter, CoreSpireArmorRotter, CoreSpireGravityRipper, CoreSpireMaw, CoreSpireMiniRam, CoreZenithMedicFrigate, CoreNeinzulScapegoat, CoreSpireRailcluster, CoreYounglingFirefly, CoreSaboteur
Stopping here because expected AI population of planet is now >= 4000
actually bought:
Grand total: 0 ships, 0 strength
Remaining reserve: 10171.59 out of 12413.83 (81.94%)


This log is for a Core world I was in the process of neutering.  It had an average of fewer than 100 ships on it, including guardposts and the Reserve spawn.  Didn't have 4000 firepower on it, either.
Also, it claims it wasn't deploying anything, but it most certainly was.  The Ships available to spawn includes all sorts of things the AIs have not unlocked (I'm beginning to think this is deliberate?).  However, the spawn strength is not going down.
 

[keith.lamothe]

Toranth, do you have a save where I can see this (the strategic reserve tomfoolery) in action?  I looked to see if there was one from you earlier in the thread but I may have missed it.

Something's wrong, surely, but it's a lot harder and more time consuming for me to guess at from the code and whatever gamestates I can bring about.

[Toranth]

Toranth, do you have a save where I can see this (the strategic reserve tomfoolery) in action?  I looked to see if there was one from you earlier in the thread but I may have missed it.

Something's wrong, surely, but it's a lot harder and more time consuming for me to guess at from the code and whatever gamestates I can bring about.

Sure, here's the save in question when I noticed this.  Load up and switch to the Champions on the Core world.
This is the same game with the Core Fireflies spawning as special forces that I mentioned earlier in the thread.

[rabican]

MK III mil command stations have bit of a problem now. They paralyze, but don't translocate paralyzed targets. So they shoot same stuff over and over again until they are dead.

They'll only push the ships back to about 2k under the max range of the command center.

Over the max range, right? And paralyzed ships don't move one pixel.

[keith.lamothe]

MK III mil command stations have bit of a problem now. They paralyze, but don't translocate paralyzed targets. So they shoot same stuff over and over again until they are dead.

They'll only push the ships back to about 2k under the max range of the command center.

Over the max range, right? And paralyzed ships don't move one pixel.

Under the max range, so that the station can keep shooting them.  The paralyzed ones don't move because they've already been knocked back to that range and the paralysis keeps them from moving

@Toranth, thanks, I'll take a look

[TechSY730]

Under the max range, so that the station can keep shooting them.  The paralyzed ones don't move because they've already been knocked back to that range and the paralysis keeps them from moving

Anyone feel that this makes the military command stations LESS useful, as this makes it more likely that the station will get "distracted" on killing a few targets (as the don't go out of range) rather than pushing away those other units that got close, and is much less useful against some of the longish range stuff (not long enough to outrange the command station, but long enough to shoot at range - 2k)?

At least with the old behavior, such bad case "teleportation destinations" was possible (and much worse ones possible too), but unlikely. With the new system, it seems to be the norm.

EDIT: I do realize these changes make the military command station more likely to kill things on its own power, which fits the whole military monicker. However, this does leave a gap of a command station that can just stall, without necessarily having good DPS, which is something I liked. Something for the logistics, maybe?

[Kahuna]

What was so wrong with the translocating shots they had to be replaced this new one?

[Lancefighter]

The community seemed to be pretty split on the idea of translocation shots.

There were some of us that absolutely hated it (main disadvantage: Defending AGAINST a point with translocators was suboptimal - Bad at chokepoint defense where weapons are focused on a wormhole)

There were some of them that really liked it (main advantage: Defending a point with translocators was fairly ideal - Good for defending in depth, strategic item, etc)

[rabican]

Ah yes... umm , yeah my bad. I assumed it would push stuff over its range so it could pick new targets and spread the love and be more effective.  Now it kinda just mews on same stuff until its dead. Makes the mk II-III engine damage/paralyzation almost totally useless, unless you micro it to shoot some unpushable target with damageable engines.

Yeah definately makes military stations  a lot less usefull. Guesstimating that they are about half as usefull as previously for stalling.  Although mk II+s with their engine damage might be bit OP if they changed targets but euh, its just painfull to watch the station being incredibly stupid. The optimal use of mil stations right now is something like this : let it shoot first couple of volleys, then click on some low health stuff, make it finish that off and let it pick new targets, rinse, repeat. Thats bit too much micro for me but otherwise they are uh, annoyingly bad.

[Faulty Logic]

I think I would like the knockback cannons to knock the enemies back a little farther (and affect paralyzed enemies), while the translocators were moved to the high-mark logistics stations.

Nebulae: I just played through the first 9 and would like to report that they were all challenging (in that it wouldn't have taken much of a mistake to lose) but doable.

Also: "CoreDemonHand" ? Did you add a new ship of absolute evil only availible in the strategic reserve? If so, I approve wholeheartedly.