AI War Beta 5.089 "Apply Sanding Machine" Released!

[Wanderer]

Nom nom nom nom... I'm likin' these new changes.

Ah, I must not be causing enough pain.  Will add more broken glass to the next dish.  Or does it need to be molten?

Heh, i haven't fired up my fortress in months... might be time to go visit the Urists.  Gods, I've got like no gaming time anymore.  I *will* get myself back into AI War here this week at some point... hopefully tomorrow, but I know how my plans usually work out.

[Winge]

Also for helping with the multi-ingress/satellite-worlds thing: added a new "Mini-Fortress" unit to the SUP tab of the command-station/mobile-builder buy menu (this is a base-game unit, not tied to an expansion).
These are basically a MkI fortress on a 1/10th scale (stat-wise), and you can only build 2 per planet (per player, also scales with multiple homeworlds), but there's no galaxy-wide cap so putting them on your satellite worlds does not take away any cap your main defenses could be using.
Unlocking these costs 1000 knowledge (for reference, MkI forts cost 3000 knowledge to unlock, and provide 25x as much firepower at cap for your main line but not the per-planet-cap flexibility of these).
These don't have the penalty vs polycrystal (or scout) hulls, making them actually able to deal with bombers.
Thanks to Wanderer and the other poll voters for inspiring this change.

Well, now I know what I want to spend some of that 4,000 Knowledge on in my current game (if the update makes it available, of course).

Nom nom nom nom... I'm likin' these new changes.

Ah, I must not be causing enough pain.  Will add more broken glass to the next dish.  Or does it need to be molten?

How about molten glass that spawns more broken glass?

[chemical_art]

The new mini forts sound interesting, but really nerf military comm stations in the process.

Half their value was that you'd build one to deal with threat that entered your world while not wasting turrets that could be used elsewhere. Now that you get units that destroy units far more effective then the military comm station, there is far less a niche to get them. Yes, they are still somewhat nice for their planet wide firepower cap, but if you used spire capital ships or golems or starships for the bulk of your power you need nothing more then the free MK I versions. I'm saying this as the guy whose defended military comm stations vehemently against those who say econ stations are best.

[keith.lamothe]

I think the military stations and the miniforts complement one another pretty well, actually.  But yes, it is horning in a bit on one of the mil-station's tradititional roles.

[chemical_art]

I think the military stations and the miniforts complement one another pretty well, actually.  But yes, it is horning in a bit on one of the mil-station's tradititional roles.

They really don't, at least as far as upgrading the military comm station II and III are concerned.

Right now, the new fort completely curbstomps the military comm station in every way except its planet wide munition effect. It hits much harder at a far greater range for a sliver of its K cost while not getting the oppertunity cost of diminished resources of the econ comm stations.

However, with the current meta of everything unlocked, a full half of the game changing things are immune to anything over the military comm I's boost. This includes the new forts.

There is almost no reason to invest in military comm stations over econ stations if you get mini forts now. If you need the boost on your whipping boy you get the free military I station.

It saddens me that now the econ stations are best in every situation now if you invest in better comm stations

[And don't get started on what happens if you get a mult-hw or player game. It just gets sad.]

EDIT: Ok, there is the bonus for cloaking. But you can get both levels of the decloaker turret AND the mini fort for the same cost of the mk II military station.

[keith.lamothe]

Maybe I need to buff mil stations then

[chemical_art]

Maybe I need to buff mil stations then

Haha.

I'm not saying the mini forts are op. It's that it makes military stations up.

Before when I heard people I play with complain as they get econ stations "that rogue stealth battleship blew up my comm station" I can chuckle and say "get a military comm station."

Now, though, you will always want the econ station and just get some mini forts. The military station is completely overshadowed by the mini fort. The mini forts destroy the military stations in behind the line actions, and the military stations were situational as it was before the mini forts to begin with.

Right now the meta is econ stations and meta forts, and I'd prefer a compelling reason otherwise.

Even with the decloaking it becomes a matter of:

IF your enemy is using vampire claws and IF your whipping boy also holds a mk IV factory and IF your mk I and II delcoaker turrets are maxed out THEN YOU MIGHT want MK II military comm stations.

[TechSY730]

Maybe I need to buff mil stations then

People have been saying this is needed Mk. II and III of military and logistics stations for quite some time now.

The low-ish firepower boost cap overall and the even lower still firepower boost cap really hurt how much you get from the higher mark military mark stations.
I would still recommend that military command station for its translocating effect (great for stall) and the tachyon beams, but that isn't enough to make me think Mk. II is worth it.

Similar issue with the logisticts, except worse. IIRC, the magnitude of the speed nerf to enemy units does NOT go up with mark, only the speed buff to allies, which generally already move fast enough on friendly planets. Thus, you get almost nothing for the Mk. II of the logistics. If the speed nerf to enemies went down with mark (even if you had to reduce the magnitude of the Mk. I speed nerf to do so), I would consider getting Mk. II of these things.

So basically, the issue is that what you get for higher marks of these two is not very useful due to limits and stats of most of the other things in the game.

[Lancefighter]

I think the military stations and the miniforts complement one another pretty well, actually.  But yes, it is horning in a bit on one of the mil-station's tradititional roles.

Thats kinda why I suggested tieing the strength of per system turrets to the type of command station - It gives military command stations a lot more actual use than just 'i can actually shoot stuff.. and mostly translocate'

[Wanderer]

I expect I will personally be ending up using Mil I's with Miniforts on my satellites... where before I was running Mil Is with a handful of turrets.  I don't see a significant issue there.  Mil stations stall, miniforts kill.  That's all Mil stations ever really did, stall the enemy a bit, and a good chunk of threat wouldn't even translocate.

Now, are Mil II stations really worth it?  No.  They're a stepstone to Mil III, and that's for your whipping boy(s).  Oh, sure, I'd fill in the gaps with 'em just because I could swap out some Mil Is for a bit better econ, but that's not really why I opened Mil II.  Mil III is the only station that had serious effect on drifter traffic, anything lower would get overwhelmed, usually quickly if you tossed a few gravs into play too.

I'm sorry, but I afraid I just don't see the Mil station as being a system protector.  It's always been a support unit to the actual protectors.  The only difference I see here is that mini-forts will not tax my turret caps for minor satellite defenses.