AI War Beta 5.089 "Apply Sanding Machine" Released!

[LaughingThesaurus]

Very nice.

[TechSY730]

Saw the new thread behaviour:

Since "make the threatballs fish or cut bait" was #1 on the second round of the 6.0 poll:

    Threat ships behave as they used to for about 30 minutes after being freed, but after that they are switched to an alternate "Threat Fleet" behavior that is somewhat similar to the new Special Forces mechanic.
        Note: this only happens on Difficulty 7+, as it's not the AI getting anything extra, it's just behaving more intelligently (in theory) with what it has.
    If an AI homeworld or core world is under attack, the threat fleet will rally to defend it.
    Otherwise, if it sees an accessible non-AI planet with a significant human presence that it thinks it can take out, it goes to attack that (it will still pool up at the entry wormhole in some cases, until enough of them are there to pass the threshold, so they don't march in to the grinder one-by-one).
    Otherwise, it picks a planet in AI territory to hang out at until either of the two above conditions are met.
    If a carrier is spontaneously formed from ships that have a significant threat-fleet population, the carrier (and anything it spawns) is also considered threat-fleet.
    Thanks to Wanderer, TechSY730, Faulty Logic, Hearteater, many other players over the months, and the 6.0 poll voters for inspiring this change.

Sounds awesome. One question though the step where "if it sees an accessible non-AI planet with a significant human presence that it thinks it can take out, it goes to attack that (it will still pool up at the entry wormhole in some cases, until enough of them are there to pass the threshold, so they don't march in to the grinder one-by-one).", does that one also follow the 30 minute wait max? It could be possible for the amount of strength of the new planet to change between the time they selected it as "vulnerable" and the time they actually make it to the wormhole.

[keith.lamothe]

does that one also follow the 30 minute wait max?

It's not actually a 30 minute wait max, it's "after 30 minutes coordinate with all the other ones that have been free that long". 

In general, the firepower threshold to get the threat-fleet to come after a target is such that when it actually all gets to the wormhole (on group move, generally) it will have enough to go through.  If for some reason the firepower on the target has gone up too much in the meantime it will just back off and go somewhere else.

[TechSY730]

does that one also follow the 30 minute wait max?

It's not actually a 30 minute wait max, it's "after 30 minutes coordinate with all the other ones that have been free that long". 

In general, the firepower threshold to get the threat-fleet to come after a target is such that when it actually all gets to the wormhole (on group move, generally) it will have enough to go through.  If for some reason the firepower on the target has gone up too much in the meantime it will just back off and go somewhere else.

Ah that's good to hear.
Thanks for your hard work on this sort of stuff. I know new AI behaviors are tricky to get down, but we appreciate it.

I know it wasn't on the poll, but have you given any more though about the AI's turret firepower considerations?

[keith.lamothe]

Ah that's good to hear.
Thanks for your hard work on this sort of stuff. I know new AI behaviors are tricky to get down, but we appreciate it.

Yea, except for a couple minor changes this one feature has been my last day and a half   But if it's #1 on a general poll like that... well, where better to put the time?

I know it wasn't on the poll, but have you given any more though about the AI's turret firepower considerations?

I've been thinking about it, and took some observations while testing the new behavior, but for now left it where it was.

[TechSY730]

Just something somewhat notworthy:
Toranth discovered that the "Freed/Threat" champion ship counts the Heroic AI type gets every now and then doesn't seem to scale with AIP like waves do, only with difficulty.
That leads to rather "ROFL curbstomp" numbers of champions barreling down on you early in the game, long before you can get enough stuff to really fight them off.
And this isn't just a 10/10 thing either, you can also reproduce it (to a lesser extent) on 9/9.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,11754.msg123124.html#new

[TechSY730]

Quick question.

Any more game seed changes planned? If so, I am going to wait until 5.090 to start a new game. Otherwise, I will just start tonight (assuming 5.090 does not come out tonight).

[keith.lamothe]

Quick question.

Any more game seed changes planned? If so, I am going to wait until 5.090 to start a new game. Otherwise, I will just start tonight (assuming 5.090 does not come out tonight).

It's difficult to predict, but if I do the request asking for one map seed and one everything-but-the-map seed then the latter will have a different outcome than it does... though I may need to make it not do so or it could move resource spots around on existing maps.  I forget how that interacts.

5.090 won't be out tonight, but should be some time tomorrow.

[TechSY730]

Quick question.

Any more game seed changes planned? If so, I am going to wait until 5.090 to start a new game. Otherwise, I will just start tonight (assuming 5.090 does not come out tonight).

It's difficult to predict, but if I do the request asking for one map seed and one everything-but-the-map seed then the latter will have a different outcome than it does... though I may need to make it not do so or it could move resource spots around on existing maps.  I forget how that interacts.

While I would support making the map seeding a little more flexible and less brittle, I understand that this is difficult because the resource spots and wormhole locations (on the planet view, the galctic map planet locations are saved) are not saves but are generated on demand (every game load) based on the map seed (which is saved). It would require some real clever thinking about how to change up the map layout generation without breaking existing games.

And if that split is done, that doesn't really change up how a game would of gone anyways, unlike, say, the advanced factory and manufactory away from the wormholes change. So I think I will start a new game tonight anyways.

[onyhow]

Man I really wonder when will Grenade Launcher and Infiltrator get buffed...those 2 seems to be on the table for a long time already...

[TechSY730]

I saw that you fixed the minor factions using the human auto-kiting setting bug. While I'm glad that is fixed, it did lead to some very nice behavior. Especially with resistance missile frigates and several nebuila ships.

Any chance of giving the longer range minor faction stuff (>= range of Dyson gattling) some sort of auto-kite on the ship property, like the Z bombards and raptors have? It doesn't have to be the same degree as the control settings auto-kiting logic would of given, but it would keep those ships very effective as they will continue to abuse their long range.

[Eternaly_Lost]

Well I was about to start a new game, then I saw this in the change log for the next version.

Also for helping with the multi-ingress/satellite-worlds thing: added a new "Mini-Fortress" unit to the SUP tab of the command-station/mobile-builder buy menu (this is a base-game unit, not tied to an expansion).
These are basically a MkI fortress on a 1/10th scale (stat-wise), and you can only build 2 per planet (per player, also scales with multiple homeworlds), but there's no galaxy-wide cap so putting them on your satellite worlds does not take away any cap your main defenses could be using.
Unlocking these costs 1000 knowledge (for reference, MkI forts cost 3000 knowledge to unlock, and provide 25x as much firepower at cap for your main line but not the per-planet-cap flexibility of these).
These don't have the penalty vs polycrystal (or scout) hulls, making them actually able to deal with bombers.
Thanks to Wanderer and the other poll voters for inspiring this change.

That sounds pure awesome. Enough to get me to delay my new game until the next patch.

[keith.lamothe]

Good timing, I was right at the end of getting 5.090 out.

New one

[Wanderer]

Nom nom nom nom... I'm likin' these new changes.

[keith.lamothe]

Nom nom nom nom... I'm likin' these new changes.

Ah, I must not be causing enough pain.  Will add more broken glass to the next dish.  Or does it need to be molten?