AI War Beta 5.083 "Core Values" Released!

[Coppermantis]

I looked up Teuthida when I saw it in the game files and found that it's a squid. I wondered what it does; now I know. Sounds brutal.

The others are pretty nasty as well.

[Lancefighter]

Did i miss a patchnote like long long ago where brutal pick?? was added? Like I can literally find nothing in the patchnotes about it.

[Hearteater]

Previously it was possible for AI Homeworlds to get really brutal combinations like an AI Eye + 3 (or more) Core Raid Engine guard posts (which is pretty much the RNG saying "good game" on higher difficulties but you don't know until you scout it), or nothing really all that threatening at all. Randomization is core to AI War, but this particular bit of it could literally be the difference between a fairly easy endgame and a mathematically-impossible-to-win situation.
Now, for AI Homeworlds, it randomizes the three most brutal structures (Core Raid Engine, Core CPA, and AI Eye) separately from the rest of the structures:
On Diff 9+ it always gets two picks from this new set. So you could get an Eye + a Core Raid, or two CPAs, or two Eyes (which is actually kind of nice to you since they don't really stack), or whatever. But not 3 Core Raids. And not none of the above.
On Diff 8+ it randomly rolls (per homeworld) between one and two picks.
On Diff 7+ it always gets one pick.
Below Diff 7 it randomly rolls between zero and one picks.
As the set of core guard posts expands in the future (expansions, mainly), this "brutal" set can also be added to.
Thanks to Wanderer for inspiring this change.

Patch 5.036, when Drones were added to the Enclave ships.

[LordSloth]

Reprocessors: Failed science experiment (on my part)

After nuking my homeworld, I still had 350m/c a sec.

anyways, I went into a nearby mark 3 system with a full cap (mk 1 through 3) of zenith reprocessors, and nothing else.

Put 'em in standby, moved towards a group of 7 mark three bombers
M: 5800 * 7 prediction: 40,600 + metal, only 5,600 crystal.
Right before the first shot lands: 655,941 metal, 398,206 crystal. Time: 33:05

They may have unfortunately fired on some other units that came to join the fight, so the numbers are rougher than I hoped.
Anyways, at 33:23 I had 724,430 metal and 413,084 crystal.

If you toss out their special ability, they pretty thoroughly fail compared to even triangle ships, fighters vs bombers, reprocessors vs bombers, and still if you don't go up against a specific counter.

Total cost for marks1-3: 112,000 metal, 112,000 crystal, if I calculate correctly. So I've paid back half my metal investment in twenty seconds. Their counter, the Fighter is so cheap anyways it's not worth the time.

Thoughts:

• I need to try them in a mixed fleet while I'm trying to build either fallen spire, repair broken golem, or purchasing from the zenith trader.
• Reprocessors Mk 1 (136) build to cap quicker than fighters (192 sec mk1), MUCH quicker than Acid Sprayers (288+), AND can literally pay for themselves. For comparison, Spire Stealth Battleships clearly outperform in a battle role, but take 670 second to cap while costing 16000m/6000c versus Reprocessors 2000/2000. This time to cap ratio seems to hold true to the higher levels as well.
• This results in reprocessors being the most expendable low-cap ship, although you can end up at significant loss if they face enough units.
  
• This will go so much better without tackle drones and a nuked home system.
• I did not test at all in a mixed fleet, while paying attention to higher or lower marks, or supporting a system defense. This will certainly affect the reclamation levels to some extent.
• They definitely work now, although there are still plenty of things they cannot reclaim for resources. If they had immunity to tractors, I'd love them in a sort of Commando Reprocessor-Raider role.
• I might be able to use these to pay for fortresses and starship fleets. I wonder exactly how fast I can push this at the start of the game... I'm tempted to do a rial and AAR. See what my time to fortress is with and without.
  

[keith.lamothe]

On the new brutal posts: if they're less terrorizing than a CRE (in practice), I will buff them   Even if that means immunity to AOE (warheads), artillery, whatever.

Otherwise I kinda have to make every HW (on high enough difficulty, at least) have a CRE, and that's kinda... not very procedural

[Faulty Logic]

About that: the cpa posts are almost ignorable (unless they are on both HWs, which is unlikely), as are the parasite and ion eyes (they fire far too slowly, I would like them to instantly alter the ratio, like sentry eyes do).

[Hearteater]

All Core GP are already be immune to Artillery ammo and Nukes, and if the new brutals aren't that should be changed.  We might need a Core Eye variant that's nuke immune.  Alternately, make all Eyes nuke immune.  I do agree that Ion and Parasite Eyes might still be too weak compared to Sentry.

[Kahuna]

About that: the cpa posts are almost ignorable

Yeah I know right. What could 2 golems, 10 spirecraft, 40 starships and thousands of ships possibly do? Not much.

as are the parasite and ion eyes (they fire far too slowly, I would like them to instantly alter the ratio, like sentry eyes do).

What do sentry eyes do? If I have Riots they don't do anything.
If Parasite and Ion eyes did that Sentry Eye should be buffed to have 999.999 range and to do 100.000x100 damage and 100 engine damage.

[Faulty Logic]

About that: the cpa posts are almost ignorable

Yeah I know right. What could 2 golems, 10 spirecraft, 40 starships and thousands of ships possibly do? Not much.

They do absolutely nothing, because they arrive after the game is over.

as are the parasite and ion eyes (they fire far too slowly, I would like them to instantly alter the ratio, like sentry eyes do).

What do sentry eyes do? If I have Riots they don't do anything.
If Parasite and Ion eyes did that Sentry Eye should be buffed to have 999.999 range and to do 100.000x100 damage and 100 engine damage.

Your argument is based on an incredibly specific set of circumstances. Riot starships, awesome as they are, can't completely neutralize a thousand ships without the ships having any effect (if the sentry eye doesn't spawn that many, then it has already had an effect by preventing you from bringing in more ships).

[KDR_11k]

No matter how awesome the new posts are in defense a CRE can attack planets other than its own.

[Kahuna]

Your argument is based on an incredibly specific set of circumstances.

No.
I have ~400-600 ships and Riots. An AI planet has a Sentry Eye. I send my fleet in. I group move around the planet destroying guard posts.

So what do you do when you meet an Ion or Parasite Eye? You just send in all ships? Ion and Parasite Eyes destroy 4 ships every second. Do you destroy the Eyes so fast you don't even notice any losses?

[TechSY730]

About that: the cpa posts are almost ignorable

Yeah I know right. What could 2 golems, 10 spirecraft, 40 starships and thousands of ships possibly do? Not much.

They do absolutely nothing, because they arrive after the game is over.

While having the core CPA posts trigger the CPA wave instantly (no countdown) may have been a bit silly, having them trigger a normal CPA wave (with the 11 or so minute countdown), may have been too much of a nerf. Is there any way for it to spawn a half countdown wave?

Your argument is based on an incredibly specific set of circumstances.

No.
I have ~400-600 ships and Riots. An AI planet has a Sentry Eye. I send my fleet in. I group move around the planet destroying guard posts.

So what do you do when you meet an Ion or Parasite Eye? You just send in all ships? Ion and Parasite Eyes destroy 4 ships every second. Do you destroy the Eyes so fast you don't even notice any losses?

Quite plausibly yes. At 4 ships/second, that would be 2.5 minutes before it could take out 600 ships. You could quite easily take out one guard post during in much less than that time (barring gravity effects or something), rebuild the losses (easy given how strong your economy can get by the time you can afford 600 ship blobs), and repeat. Yes, this still requires a change of tactics, but it still is attacking in mass, which the AI eyes are supposed to discourage.

[KDR_11k]

Eyes don't shoot when you don't send too many units in, since the threshold is 2x the AI's ship count on the planet you can easily stay below it (though I wish there was a lower limit for the threshold since you may encounter AI ships while performing the post raids and if you kill them you might end up lowering the threshold too much).

[LordSloth]

I'm a puny 7/7 player, and even then I have a bad habit of alerting the homeworld and then getting distracted by something else and leaving it on alert. I also conquer a lot more of the universe than I need to.

For people who play more seriously... perhaps on 8 and above, or simply just trying to make as clean an endgame as possible...

How many ships do you tend to actually encounter on a homeworld, after the special forces overhaul?

600 ships doesn't seem like enough to set off an eye to me, but then I admit to stirring the hornets nest on much more forgiving difficulties.

[Hearteater]

I've hit AI Homeworlds when they have less than 300 ships on 8/8.