AI War Beta 5.080-5.082 "Bonus Round" Released!

[chemical_art]

My math isn't adding up:

Siege engine dps=

Base: 30k * 16 ship cap / 10 second reload = 48k ship cap base dps***
480k base dps * 5 multipliers = 240k specialized dps

Fighter dps:
Base: 4080 * 96 ship cap / 4 second reload = 97,920 dps
97920 * 6 multipliers = 587k specialized dps

***I used the standard dps formula of raw damage / reload speed for dps here, but the siege engine actually doesn't follow that rule. Since it has to reload before it fires the first shot, its dps is actually significantly less at the start of a fight.

I think the weakened dps is to the tune of:
(xn - n) / n where x is the number of 10 second intervals, rounded down, and n being the dps of the craft. (I'm sure I botched this number).

To use words: If a fight lasts 25 seconds, then a attacking siege gun fires twice, but a missile frigate fires three times. This is because all craft but the siege gun gets an opening salvo, but the siege gun does not.


This is not to even begin that right now in my game the siege engine does less damage then the fighter by less then half.

What is your game speed setting and Cap scale?

I do agree that those numbers look odd, as I thought Keith was balancing things so that bonus fleet ships were on average against their preferred targets something like 1.5x better then a normal fleet ship. And your numbers said that he missed it by quite a bit.

Normal speed and normal cap scale.

Because of the varying stats with those varying caps and speed I provided the fighter as a reference point.

When I say "odd" I mean "why is this specialized craft so much worst dps then the basic fighter?"

[keith.lamothe]

My math isn't adding up:

Siege engine dps=

Base: 30k * 16 ship cap / 10 second reload = 48k ship cap base dps***
480k base dps * 5 multipliers = 240k specialized dps

Fighter dps:
Base: 4080 * 96 ship cap / 4 second reload = 97,920 dps
97920 * 6 multipliers = 587k specialized dps

Oops, yep, turns out the cap-dps thing was factoring in the fact that each siege shot can hit 14 extra targets, but not factoring in the fact that it hits each of those 1/16th as hard, will correct for the next version.  Thanks for the math check

Though I imagine they're still pretty devastating

[Diazo]

Alright, siege engines on 5.080.

It looks like a full cap of Mk I and Mk II siege engines do 5,931,250 damage in a single salvo against a target they have their bonus against. (A force field in this case).

The AOE also killed everything under the shield in that single salvo, although it is  Mk I system and their was not much underneath it.

So, not totally worthless but that damage drops down to 1,186,250 against targets without their bonus, that's 2 to 4 salvos to kill a Mk III guardpost assuming I lose no siege engines to the AI's response.

In other words, still not sure. We'll see after the numbers fix next patch gives them a bit of a buff.

D.

[TechSY730]

Sorry, but just stumbled across one quite annoying issue if you get bit by it: 9583: When using the apply to selection on something that is under contruction, the build progress is reset.

[Lancefighter]

Absolutely silly idea; Thoughts on allowing spire corvettes to gain one ship cap per spire shipyard? (or maybe per 2 shipyards, since youll get 1 per mk)

[keith.lamothe]

Absolutely silly idea; Thoughts on allowing spire corvettes to gain one ship cap per spire shipyard? (or maybe per 2 shipyards, since youll get 1 per mk)

I could actually do that fairly easily, but it would kind of make the ship very very OP for FS games in the sense of "if I'm playing FS, why would I not pick the spire corvette as my starting bonus type?"

[mrsmithal]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but can the forcefields on the Spire Corvettes have a build time greater then 1 seconds? I literally had 4 mark V Corvettes tank an entire Neinzul roaming enclave wave by themselves. Even I think that's a bit too much.

[Trandrin]

Question, could the Nebulae Production yards be routed through say a fabricator warp gate until they get their own separate Warp gate? Got a lot of nebulae friends chilling in their homes due to lack of a bus or taxi to the front lines. Also the Corvette is awesome. Wish something like this had been the first Ship in the Spire City line instead of a single shot frigate.

[Lancefighter]

Is that a bad thing?

Why not allow all spire 'fleet' ships have this mechanic? If I am going to play a FS game, why not give me some sort of benefit for picking a spire ship? After I pick up a city, most any bonus ship I have becomes not as useful, when compared to spire cruisers.

Partially the answer is probably 'because you could end up with a hundred mk4 stealth battleships'.. but I come back to 'Why not?'

[pheonix89]

Absolutely silly idea; Thoughts on allowing spire corvettes to gain one ship cap per spire shipyard? (or maybe per 2 shipyards, since youll get 1 per mk)

I could actually do that fairly easily, but it would kind of make the ship very very OP for FS games in the sense of "if I'm playing FS, why would I not pick the spire corvette as my starting bonus type?"

Well, because that bonus takes forever and a day to come into play? Because corvettes are crazy expensive and have an absolutely TINY cap? Because the actual fallen spire ships that the shipyard builds make them kind of obsolete. Seriously, the corvette turrets and lance are pitiful compared to FS stuff. The only real edge they have over fallen spire ships is getting a plasma siege gun while retaining shields much more easily and being able to mount double shields before getting the capital. Even with additional numbers, the corvette is a cutdown spire destroyer, and having extras still won't necessarly make up for being completely outstripped by the Fallen Spire fleet. I'd personally take IRE's, blade spawners, tackle drones, polarizers, SSBs, shield bearers, zenith medics, or parasites over it for a single HW FS game. And i'm sure there are other ships I'm forgetting that I would take.

[Diazo]

On the other hand it sounds like something I should be checking out to get a reasonably powerful ship in my non-FS game.

We'll see what happens, I do want to finish my current one if possible.

D.

[Eternaly_Lost]

Absolutely silly idea; Thoughts on allowing spire corvettes to gain one ship cap per spire shipyard? (or maybe per 2 shipyards, since youll get 1 per mk)

I could actually do that fairly easily, but it would kind of make the ship very very OP for FS games in the sense of "if I'm playing FS, why would I not pick the spire corvette as my starting bonus type?"

What about having all the bonus ships or even all ships scale up with Spire cities? You are moving into full war after all, and when you start seeing Hunter killers waves, you really can't make do with isolated fleet ships anymore.

[Diazo]

The FS exo-waves are punishing enough already though and reasonably balanced as I understand it.

If you boost the number of ships the player gets, the FS exo-waves would have to get stronger to compensate.

Also, the non-FS stuff such as the normal waves and the CPAs would become even more irrelevant then they are now.

So, an interesting idea that I'm against due to the fact that it would change the balance point, but not the actual game beyond melting your CPU with more ships.

D.

[Lancefighter]

Yeah, it is indeed a fairly slippery slope, one that I am pretty sure is not ideal to go down.

If we set precedence here, why not elsewhere.. I question I cant really provide a good answer to

[Faulty Logic]

I strongly oppose having the corvettes scale with spire cities. FS fleets as they are are enough, and FS already changes the relative values of quite a few techs (into the dreaded no-brainer zone). Besides, the ship is mostly human tech.

Edit: Cryo pods/home settlements are not immune to firefly AoE. This is extravagently annoying (for the same reason it was when attacked by plasma siege starships).

Edit2: Youngling fireflies are ridiculously powerful (20mkIIs of them= dead fightersI-II+bombersI).