Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!  (Read 12892 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2012, 10:06:53 am »
Yes it is a doom indeed and I like it. So far I like the new Special Forces Captain AI.

Here's the log:
Good night!  I guess that's what happens when you a 3x multiplier from diff 10 and a 5x multiplier from 2 special forces captains.  The thing is spawning over 150 ships per minute towards the end there.  It's a good thing I put a population cap (of about 4000 strength, so 2000 standard-cap ships on Normal-cap-scale) on that so your computer didn't melt ;)

I don't know how you'd make much progress against that; intergalactic sentry eye is right.

Hmm, are they supposed to be getting an order of magnitude higher of standard fighters compared to everything else?
Yep, though it's a bit more complex than that:

From the first entry, which was from a game without special forces captains:
Quote
allocating 0.33 out of 1 (11.01 strength) for role: None , eligible types:BomberII, MissileShipII, MLRSII, SpacePlaneII
allocating 0.67 out of 1 (21.94 strength) for role: AntiBomber , eligible types:FighterII

And from the last entry, which was from a game with two special forces captains:
Quote
allocating 0.33 out of 1 (169.14 strength) for role: None , eligible types:BomberII, MissileShipII
allocating 0.67 out of 1 (337.17 strength) for role: AntiBomber , eligible types:FighterII, ShieldBoosterII, AcidSprayerII

It would have put some into the other roles too, but it didn't have any ships unlocked that fit them.

So in the first entry, the only anti-bomber ship it has is the fighter, so it picks a lot of fighters.  In the second entry it has 3 anti-bomber types (though I may need to tell it not to put armor boosters in that category regardless of how good its vs-polycrystal multiplier is) and spreads out a bit more.

Here's the log:
Okay seriously, what the balls?

Quote
allocating 0 out of 1 (0 strength) for role: CopperPlatedBastard , eligible types:
;)  The "copper-plated" bit is from some Honor Harrington I've been reading lately, though I doubt it originated there.  The rest of it... well, there's only one ship type currently considered to fit that role, and I think you'll agree when you find out which it is.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline TechSY730

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,570
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2012, 10:16:07 am »
I also noticed that for both this and for the new reinforcement choice logic, you are beginning to formalize (internally at least) the concept of fleet ship "roles" at what fleet ship types are good at them, and making the AI stratagize some around that.

That is awesome!

It really gives a great framework for AI fleet management/ship choice stuff in the future, and possibly even gives ways to make existing types of things smarter (like "focused on a role" but not mono-type shizto waves).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 10:19:18 am by TechSY730 »

Offline LordSloth

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2012, 10:33:13 am »
What in the name of... OS Raid Engine? That sounds like some kind of testing/development artifact.
Unless doom AIs are now allowed to have invisible raid engines that activate whenever they feel like.

Let me just say that Zenith Traders are equal opportunity salesbeings.

Edit: Oh, Winge already said that, woops.

So.. how about that engineers scaling based on the number of players? Is that intended? I'd presume not since it ignores the game low/normal/high scale.

Also, cannot switch a helper player to a champion - but can switch to champion+normal. Please let us switch a helper to just a champion, it actually has come up in some of my weekend games so far.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 10:38:16 am by LordSloth »

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2012, 10:38:41 am »
Let me just say that Zenith Traders are equal opportunity salesbeings.
I believe the term is usually shortened to "slime" or "scum".
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2012, 10:42:04 am »
Lol before Sloth finished his sentence, my mind replaced "salesbeings" with "scumbags".

So my initial read of the sentence went:

Let me just say that Zenith Traders are equal opportunity scumbags

Lol.
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline Trandrin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2012, 11:54:23 am »
The change to three types of ships on AI worlds has led to me sending out a safari team of parasite+counter ships to planets that have 1 or more ship types I like to get me reclaims. Most enjoyable.
Also inquiry, was there a delay added to loading transports in recent patch(s)? My ships have been rather slow to board the Transport. Could have sworn they used to enter right as you told them to before I updated last.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2012, 11:59:13 am »
The change to three types of ships on AI worlds has led to me sending out a safari team of parasite+counter ships to planets that have 1 or more ship types I like to get me reclaims. Most enjoyable.
I thought something like that might happen :)

"And here, with ultra-careful tachyon sweeps, we observe the Eyebot in its natural habitat..."

Quote
Also inquiry, was there a delay added to loading transports in recent patch(s)? My ships have been rather slow to board the Transport. Could have sworn they used to enter right as you told them to before I updated last.
Didn't touch it :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline KDR_11k

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2012, 12:08:26 pm »
What's the role of the special forces posts now? Specifically, what's the effect of such a post being left alive on a planet the player conquers?

Offline TechSY730

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,570
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2012, 12:11:59 pm »
I can't find where this was suggested, so I am hoping it was here...


I agree with making homeworlds and maybe core world always use the old logic (pick whatever) for reinforcements. Maybe for core worlds though, they could use this logic, but with an altered probability distribution. (40% for whatever, 60% focus logic or something like this)

Should I post this on mantis?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2012, 12:12:11 pm »
What's the role of the special forces posts now? Specifically, what's the effect of such a post being left alive on a planet the player conquers?
Quote
*** The spawns are spread out among all special forces posts (and special forces guardians) in the galaxy, except those in non-AI territory.  Each post in non-AI territory instead increases the special-forces-population-cap by about 5%.  So there's a reason to kill them, in tension with the +1 AIP from killing them.
:)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline KDR_11k

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2012, 12:15:45 pm »
Aw, I was almost expecting the forces to decide on random camping trips to those human-conquered posts.

Offline orzelek

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,096
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2012, 12:23:47 pm »
Aw, I was almost expecting the forces to decide on random camping trips to those human-conquered posts.
That was removed in favor of them making a camp and greeting you when you attack AI planets it deems valuable.

Offline Kahuna

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
  • Kahuna Matata!
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2012, 12:25:22 pm »
Remember that small empires is a bad thing as far as the basic game design of AI War is concerned. From a design standpoint you want to push the player to take more planets, and thus draw more AIP upon themselves.

So, with that in mind, I see no problem in penalizing those with small empires.
I was thinking the same thing. The Shield Networks were implemented for this very reason.
Hmmm ::) I'm playing vs  2 10 Special Forces Captains, I have 3 planets and I'm about to go hunt Data Centers and CSGs. Just need to get rid of this exo first :o (patch 5.075)
Looks very promising.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 12:26:58 pm by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline orzelek

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,096
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2012, 12:37:48 pm »
Smallish question: how far are we from largest size of champion ships? Or we have all of them already?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.074-5.075 "Focused Forces" Released!
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2012, 12:39:27 pm »
Smallish question: how far are we from largest size of champion ships? Or we have all of them already?
There's one more.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!