Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.070-5.071 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!  (Read 19649 times)

Offline pheonix89

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2012, 06:24:49 pm »
Well, the modular command forts do require supply for some odd reason.

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2012, 06:28:11 pm »
Don't they provide supply though?

Offline Toranth

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,244
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2012, 06:33:47 pm »
As much as I bash the zenith sieges, they are currently the only ship that can efficiently clean out the fortress king in my experience so far, and even it takes two full assaults till I get them to III that I can take the forts out.
They are certainly MUCH better than bombers for taking out fortresses.  I've playing a Fortress King/Fortress Baron game, and I chose Siege Engines as my bonus - and boy is it worth it.  10x multiplier!  Polycrystal hull!  Forcefield splash!  All good, all good.  (But not so useful on anti-wave duties)


Appreciate your keeping my fun going. Inevitably it will come out. Please and thank you for extending my fun.
I'd keep it going, but it's getting late, and if they're going to be fixed, they need to be pointed out. 
Also, actually, I'm up to 5 issues with Modular Fortress Command Centers:  2 Major, 3 minor.

1.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... are auto-targetted by FRD ships.
2.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... require supply (But seem to give it, too.  You can't cut them off, at least).
3.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... allow Missile modules into light weapon slots (2 Shields, 2 HBCs, 4 missles, 4 other was annoying).
4.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... have only Mk II module, regardless of the actual level of the system.
5.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... Do not give AIP on death.  As much as I like this (it's an awesome gift for the pain it takes to kill one... built in data centers in each Fortress!) it's probably not intentional.

#5 is what you were talking about, I hope?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2012, 06:34:49 pm »
As much as I bash the zenith sieges, they are currently the only ship that can efficiently clean out the fortress king in my experience so far, and even it takes two full assaults till I get them to III that I can take the forts out.
Congratulations on keeping enough of them alive for 15 seconds to get a salvo off, under that kind of fire.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2012, 06:46:17 pm »
As much as I bash the zenith sieges, they are currently the only ship that can efficiently clean out the fortress king in my experience so far, and even it takes two full assaults till I get them to III that I can take the forts out.
They are certainly MUCH better than bombers for taking out fortresses.  I've playing a Fortress King/Fortress Baron game, and I chose Siege Engines as my bonus - and boy is it worth it.  10x multiplier!  Polycrystal hull!  Forcefield splash!  All good, all good.  (But not so useful on anti-wave duties)


Appreciate your keeping my fun going. Inevitably it will come out. Please and thank you for extending my fun.
I'd keep it going, but it's getting late, and if they're going to be fixed, they need to be pointed out. 
Also, actually, I'm up to 5 issues with Modular Fortress Command Centers:  2 Major, 3 minor.

1.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... are auto-targetted by FRD ships.
2.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... require supply (But seem to give it, too.  You can't cut them off, at least).
3.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... allow Missile modules into light weapon slots (2 Shields, 2 HBCs, 4 missles, 4 other was annoying).
4.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... have only Mk II module, regardless of the actual level of the system.
5.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... Do not give AIP on death.  As much as I like this (it's an awesome gift for the pain it takes to kill one... built in data centers in each Fortress!) it's probably not intentional.

#5 is what you were talking about, I hope?

#5 was what I was talking about. My two odd phrases started with a and i and p.

Forts have their other problems, like oodles of missiles which eat up polycystal at long ranges, so the only tactic involves rushing the fort in mass. Which is fine, since they are meant to be tough and cannot be countered by any single unit.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 06:47:57 pm by chemical_art »
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2012, 06:54:31 pm »
1.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... are auto-targetted by FRD ships.
2.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... require supply (But seem to give it, too.  You can't cut them off, at least).
3.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... allow Missile modules into light weapon slots (2 Shields, 2 HBCs, 4 missles, 4 other was annoying).
4.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... have only Mk II module, regardless of the actual level of the system.
5.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... Do not give AIP on death.  As much as I like this (it's an awesome gift for the pain it takes to kill one... built in data centers in each Fortress!) it's probably not intentional.
A-ha, I see.  Cute.

#1 is a bug, simple oversight, thanks.  I'm not sure I can convince your units to not have a knee-jerk brown-trousers reflex reaction to detecting that on sensors, however: push the alpha strike button and get out of there! ;)

#2 isn't really a bug because it does provide its own supply.  I actually thought normal command stations do too, hence why they can't build stuff when outside supply (on a nuked planet or coprocessor planet), though I may be remembering all that wrong.

#3 isn't a bug, mod forts can put missile modules on light slots, champions have to use heavy slots.  The champion ones are stronger, accordingly.

#4 isn't a bug (I didn't have it try to use a particular mark relative to its planet), though I am kind of surprised it limited itself to II rather than defaulting to lowest or highest.

#5 ... heh.  It's almost poetic fairness ;)


Hopefully will have time to fix those tonight, working on some engine stuff for SH at the moment.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline LordSloth

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2012, 01:00:25 am »
This modular fort discussion isn't entirely accurate. You *can* cut off supply to modular fortresses. All you have to do is nuke them and destroy the planet. The modules, at least, still work, even though the fort itself is flashing red, immune to nukes, and out of supply.

Is it intended that you can't shoot the modules (i'm presuming otherwise siege damage would slaughter them).

And yes, I did find this out in the first hour of the game. And yes, this was a mark four system my friend was currently trying to clear at the time.

This was all in the name of science, you see.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 01:09:47 am by LordSloth »

Offline Oralordos

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Suffering from Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2012, 02:25:46 am »
Was there any cake around there during your... science?

Offline RCIX

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,808
  • Avatar credit goes to Spookypatrol on League forum
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2012, 02:43:42 am »
Was there any cake around there during your... science?
I've got some cupcakes on hand if that counts.
Avid League player and apparently back from the dead!

If we weren't going for your money, you wouldn't have gotten as much value for it!

Oh, wait... *causation loop detonates*

Offline Toranth

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,244
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2012, 03:47:44 pm »
1.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... are auto-targetted by FRD ships.
2.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... require supply (But seem to give it, too.  You can't cut them off, at least).
3.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... allow Missile modules into light weapon slots (2 Shields, 2 HBCs, 4 missles, 4 other was annoying).
4.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... have only Mk II module, regardless of the actual level of the system.
5.  AI Modular Fortress Command Stations... Do not give AIP on death.  As much as I like this (it's an awesome gift for the pain it takes to kill one... built in data centers in each Fortress!) it's probably not intentional.
A-ha, I see.  Cute.

#1 is a bug, simple oversight, thanks.  I'm not sure I can convince your units to not have a knee-jerk brown-trousers reflex reaction to detecting that on sensors, however: push the alpha strike button and get out of there! ;)
#2 isn't really a bug because it does provide its own supply.  I actually thought normal command stations do too, hence why they can't build stuff when outside supply (on a nuked planet or coprocessor planet), though I may be remembering all that wrong.
#3 isn't a bug, mod forts can put missile modules on light slots, champions have to use heavy slots.  The champion ones are stronger, accordingly.
#4 isn't a bug (I didn't have it try to use a particular mark relative to its planet), though I am kind of surprised it limited itself to II rather than defaulting to lowest or highest.
#5 ... heh.  It's almost poetic fairness ;)
I remember covering my Mod fort in HBCs and lasers, may have to try missiles instead.  They've got some serious range on them.
As for #4, I was more than a little suprised when even the AI's Home Fortress had only Mk IIs on it.  I was expecting something a little better armed than the rest.  Incidentally, it doesn't give any AIP increase, either.


I just finished my 9/9 Fortress Baron/Fortress King game.  I've got some comments on things - mostly trivial stuff (text, etc) but one annoying little bug.  BTW, Fortress Barons get Superfortresses, why don't Fortress Kings?  Sounds like a case of lèse majesté to me!

The bug:  Mk V Neinzul no longer attrition.  This was very nice.  However, I had other Neinzul fleetships, so I had Regeneration Chambers scattered around.  Mk V Neinzul will go into a Regen Chamber if they've taken enough damage to cross the threshhold.  However, once in the Regen Chamber, they don't actually regenerate!  I ended up with half a cap of Mk V Vultures napping in there for an hour or two before I noticed.  Once I got them out and had the Engineers repair them (?!) it was fine.

Bomber Starships cannot target Dyson Gatlings.  I learned this the hard ways, as my SuperTerminal was located in the Dyson's system.

The offroad wormhole count scales by total system count, but the rewards don't.  There were only 5 on a 40 system map, and only 2 on a 10 system.  Rewards were exactly the same as on a 120 system map.  While the Champions are awesome with large hull sizes, more modules, and XP to up upgrade stuff - there's no way they'd be worth the AI strength increase if there were only 2 wormholes on the entire map.  I'm not sure how you could balance this, but... it kinda hurts the smaller maps.

Champion modules are still not inheriting targeting instructions from the main body - While it looks cool to have the Champion in the middle of a horde, spraying fire everywhere, I'd rather kill whatever it was I targeted.  Since, you know, I targeted it for killing and all.

Paralyzer modules on the Champions, however, are focusing fire.  This leads to killing things (Paralyzers are surprisingly powerful - Mk IV have 68,750 DPS!) but almost nothing gets paralyzed.  I seem to remember that paralyzers were changed earlier this year to deliberately spread their shots out for maximum effect.  And with 11 shots each, I was hoping an all Paralyzer Champion would act like a Riot Tazer, but it was not to be.

Shadowblades and Vengences are using the same zoomed-out icon, but the correct zoomed-in picture.  I was a little surprised when what I thought was a shadowblade tossed an energy bomb at me.  Mouseover still shows correctly, etc.  Just looks like the icon changed.

Captive Human Settlements still say "100 AIP" for losing them in the description, but it's now only 15.

Missile modules say "Not compatible with Spire-tech hulls" while Bomber modules say "Usable only on human, Neinzul, or Zenith hulls".  Deliberate, or just different wording?

Orbital Mass Drivers (and some other shooty-buildings like that) are not immune to Paralysis attacks, while others are.  May be deliberate for all I know, I just found it odd.

CPA announcements are normally that light-tan color.  However, by switching through the Champion UIs, I somehow got it to turn orange, like normal wave announcements.  Again, just odd.

I was looking through me "Kills by ship", and I saw "Shield module II - Kills made by: 8".  It's... I mean,... I just... HOW?!

I'm still seeing waves sometime announced without specificy the ship type, even when it turns out to be all one ship (No Schizo, no Support Corp, not a Counter-wave, etc).  You can see in the image, two waves to the same system.  One specifies the type, one doesn't.

On the design view, would it be possible to select a module, then shift-click to place that module in more than one slot?  Alternately, would it be possible to select a slot (shift-click multiple, too) and then click a module and have it fill all the selected slots with that module?

Any chance of getting an Anti-FRD move command?  Like a Group-Move with speed forced to zero, or something, that I can issue to units on my planets where the Auto-FRD setting is on, to prevent them from moving.  While I seriously enjoyed the Siege Engines, they were almost worthless on defense because of this.
Related, is there there an option to have your ships auto-FRD on allied planets?  My extra Champions were claiming stuff, but it wouldn't auto-FRD on the main players worlds.

A question.  I think you said in an earlier build that scenarios should be determined when you enter the nebula?  Well, in this current game, I tried messing around a bit, and no matter which nebula I entered, I always got the scenarios in the same order.  5 Nebulas:  Shatter Pillar, Mourners, Gray Spire, Epsilon Eridani, Epsilon Eridani.  Always.

That got a little longer than I expected.  So, I'll leave you with the three coreworlds the two AIs were using to protect themselves.

Offline Faulty Logic

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Bane of the AI
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2012, 07:36:39 pm »
Another fortress king problem: they don't have the Warp Gate- Reinforce only tag. This could lead to gate-raiding also cutting off reinforcements to a planet.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline orzelek

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,096
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2012, 08:27:23 pm »
Could you take a look at balancing of Zenith 3-way scenario a bit more?

I'm trying to do it currently with human destroyer with Mk III mods (mostly standard ones) and it seems that progressing is very slowly - I can defend but building some critical mass of allies for attack is difficult (and if they group they suddenly notice that enemies on other side.. and go there). Most of the time I'm simply forced to defend with heavy use of forcefield ability since allies are dead. Best surviving allies are palisades - but their dps is on very low end from what I can see so they fail sooner or later since enemies build up.
I managed to get allies to destroy one of small dark spire starbases but it seems to be going worse after that not better.
It's my 7th scenario in this game.

Offline Diazo

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,717
  • I love/hate Diff 10
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2012, 09:25:34 pm »
More details?

I'm running single HW + Champ and got that scenario as my 3rd and it seemed about right.

Yes, it a longer scenario in terms of time but the trick I've found to that one is never attack yourself.

Hang around the friendly starbase that is in the middle and intercept enemy units crossing rather then trying to attack a starbase yourself. This keeps your allies from being distracted and the enemy starbases are surprisingly fragile to your allies assault once they get in range.

Having said that, as the 7th scenario for you, whatever scaling is present is going to be a lot more pronounced when you ran into it, as compared for 3rd for me.

D.

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2012, 09:28:02 pm »
Odd.

My solution is the opposite. I rush the spire forts and sit there, deploying my shield and attacking it. I then go in a square formation while the shields are recharging. In general I get it destroyed on the second run. I then "clean up" some on defense while my ability fully charges, then I'm charging the starbase until all about the last one remains. Then I play all out defense.
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Eternaly_Lost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
Re: AI War Beta 5.070 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2012, 09:43:26 pm »
Odd.

My solution is the opposite. I rush the spire forts and sit there, deploying my shield and attacking it. I then go in a square formation while the shields are recharging. In general I get it destroyed on the second run. I then "clean up" some on defense while my ability fully charges, then I'm charging the starbase until all about the last one remains. Then I play all out defense.

I find that works the best as well. Although you have to break off some times to remove some of the built up spire ships, or they will destroy your allies bases faster then you can kill their own.