AI War Beta 5.070-5.071 "The Once And Fortress King" Released!

[MaxAstro]

The "Zenith Descendant" and "One Way Doormaster" AI Types have been promoted from the "easy" category to the "moderate" category, due to sustained player feedback that they are not, in fact, easy.

You... are my HERO.

I think "make One Way Doormaster not Easy" was my first ever AI Wars suggestion...  ~teary eyed~

[Coppermantis]

Good call on the heavy beam cannons, they do threaten the sieges well.

It's still super dicey though. One mk I siege will pop a mk I beam cannon in one shot. A mk II siege needs two shots.  The two will slaughter each other depending on who fires first. If the sieges outnumber the beam cannons 3 : 1 then the beams might hold due to their better rate of fire, but anything above 5 : 1 and I don't see how turrets in generally could hope to stop it aside from your very correct view of the IV beam cannon killing everything.

Higher mark beam cannons have dampening. Also, they outrange the siege engines, so while the engines are charging that first shot after moving into range, the cannons tear them to bits. Remember, these things have no alpha strike, they have to wait 15 seconds after entering range to fire. That gives the HBCs time to rip them to shreds.

*sigh* which is why I said the hbcs cannons be outnumbered 3 : 1 and still hold...surely, when you know...

wait? I thought the policy was the sieges can move and immediately fire, but then have to reload and be still then. So the sieges do have a powerful alpha, but a very vulunerable reload...but I haven't used them yet...so I'm not sure...

I see them like Siege Tanks from Starcraft. Takes a little bit to set up, and in order to move it has to set up again afterwards. I also haven't used them either so we'll see.

[pheonix89]

I have used them, and moving appears to restart the reload cycle. So once they stop moving, they get to start getting ready to shoot. Its like artillery deployment in other games. Move to desired location. Wait 15 seconds. Shoot. The only way they get an alpha is on defense if they just wait for the enemy to enter firing range.

[chemical_art]

I have used them, and moving appears to restart the reload cycle. So once they stop moving, they get to start getting ready to shoot. Its like artillery deployment in other games. Move to desired location. Wait 15 seconds. Shoot. The only way they get an alpha is on defense if they just wait for the enemy to enter firing range.

I see.

That makes them a third as dangerous in my eyes.

The ai can send as many as they want...and I won't select them myself.

[pheonix89]

I have used them, and moving appears to restart the reload cycle. So once they stop moving, they get to start getting ready to shoot. Its like artillery deployment in other games. Move to desired location. Wait 15 seconds. Shoot. The only way they get an alpha is on defense if they just wait for the enemy to enter firing range.

I see.

That makes them a third as dangerous in my eyes.

The ai can send as many as they want...and I won't select them myself.

You did note that they have near starship level health, right? And that they don't come in straight waves, only exos and schitzo waves? Granted, if the AI used more static defenses that actually have the hull types we use, they'd be a lot better.

[Wingflier]

Depending on their range, the 15 seconds is pittance for how much damage they could possibly do. On waves though? Eh

[Toranth]

Depending on their range, the 15 seconds is pittance for how much damage they could possibly do. On waves though? Eh

Right now, the Mk I stats:
Attack 90,000                 Range 13,000              Reload 15 seconds
Health 1,050,000             Hull  Polycrystal
Multipliers
10 Heavy             10 Ultraheavy          10 Structual            10 Turret
 
So, a single shot will pop any Mk I turret.  It'll pop most Mk III turrets, for that matter.
Under a forcefield?  The forcefield takes 900,000 damage, and 25 targets underneath take 56,250 damage.  That's 2-5 shots against a forcefield to kill most Mk I turrets underneath.  3 shots to kill a Mk I triangle ship under a forcefield.
So, yeah, while the 15 second start up time may let you thin out the attacking wave, any ships left are going to wreck pure havok on your defenses.  Add in the fact that Exowaves are usually led by something tough and speedy, and these things can be in your face and charging their shots before you know and before you've had time to deal with whatever the group-leader nasty is. 

Thankfully, with 'only' 13,000 range, you should be able to close in a reasonable time.  Unlike those annoying Bombards...



By the way, did the Spire Starship get a 100% attack buff while I wasn't looking?  I thought it did 120,000 per shot, but when I just glanced at it in the latest build, it said 240,000 per shot.  Didn't see anything in the patch notes, either.

[Draco18s]

Your idea is completely crazy Draco, and I love ideas crazy.
Unfortunately... I'm not sure. Maybe to be so modular and flexible, the AI would actually need a particular kind of modular guard post and its own whole set of units and buildings exclusive to it. If I understand the game right, the whole map is created all at once, meaning the buildings can't just transform or 'appear'.

I have seen the AI buy things from the Z-Trader.  Had a system with 2 warp gates in it.

So it's not unprecedented for buildings to "just appear."  One would just need to add a different trigger.

But yes.  With the game the way it is now it's not possible.

[zebramatt]

What about a nomadic AI with some sort of hyper-Champion instead of a home planet, which ups sticks with all its ships every couple of hours and calls in home planet -esque guard posts on whatever planet it's sitting on?

[Diazo]

By the way, did the Spire Starship get a 100% attack buff while I wasn't looking?  I thought it did 120,000 per shot, but when I just glanced at it in the latest build, it said 240,000 per shot.  Didn't see anything in the patch notes, either.

I am not aware of anything and I think 240,000 is what I've always seen on normal/normal.

I did ask for them to be buffed in my AAR as they are kind of useless at the moment but I was asking for a survivability increase, not a damage increase.

For those that don't read AARs, a single shot for a Mk I Missile Frigate does 2% damage to a Mk I Spire Starship, with how targeting prioritizes ships they can do more damage to this causes the Spire Starships to be missile shields for your other ships and they don't survive themselves to get into range.

D.

[chemical_art]

With the current mechanics of sieges, I ask they somehow have the option to be exempt from frd, so that on defense they don't go running everywhere being useless.

[TechSY730]

With the current mechanics of sieges, I ask they somehow have the option to be exempt from frd, so that on defense they don't go running everywhere being useless.

Giving them the "do not auto-pursue auto-picked targets" may be good for them. The Spire blade spawner has that behavior right now.
Also, it may be worth giving them a higher "push" priority (so they are less likely to be pushed around by other ships, resetting their timer), and making them not auto-kite even if it is set.

[Draco18s]

Giving them the "do not auto-pursue auto-picked targets" may be good for them. The Spire blade spawner has that behavior right now.

As does the tackle drone launcher.

(Speaking of, the drones themselves are terrible at picking targets.  I've seen them spawn and waste half their lifespan finding a target when there are over 100 tractorable units on the planet, then they pick one, zoom off after it, and die half way there.  I suspect it has to do with their 2,000,000,000* unit target seek range, rather than picking a more sane value (such as speed*lifespan).)

*2 billion, really?  I thought ranges of 999,999 were considered infinite.

[keith.lamothe]

Giving them the "do not auto-pursue auto-picked targets" may be good for them. The Spire blade spawner has that behavior right now.

Wouldn't work right because they don't have infinite range.  But some kind of handling of how they get frd will be in order, yes.

Also, it may be worth giving them a higher "push" priority (so they are less likely to be pushed around by other ships, resetting their timer)

They've already got a pretty high collision priority for that reason.

and making them not auto-kite even if it is set.

Yea, that makes sense.

[chemical_art]

I'll throw a line out and wait how long it takes till Keith finds it.

There is a problem with the Fortress King's forts itself.