AI War Beta 5.068-5.069 "Old Enmity Reclaimed" Released!

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, I may need to tone down the K rewards

[Shrugging Khan]

This is good. Please proceed.

...FAST! FAST! I WANT THAT DAMNED ZENITH SIEGE ENGINE, AND I WANT IT NOW!

[Cinth]

Yea, I may need to tone down the K rewards

I brought in a little over 58000 knowledge across 15 encounters. 

[relmz32]

Yea, I may need to tone down the K rewards

I brought in a little over 58000 knowledge across 15 encounters. 

Oops, i need to start a new game before this little bug gets patched out.

[Coppermantis]

This is good. Please proceed.

...FAST! FAST! I WANT THAT DAMNED ZENITH SIEGE ENGINE, AND I WANT IT NOW!

It seems a lot like the Siege Tank in Starcraft. I want it.


Also, I looked in the game files and found a lot of interesting looking Core Guard Posts. I hope we get to see them soonish, I wonder what they'll do.

[Cinth]

Yea, I may need to tone down the K rewards

I brought in a little over 58000 knowledge across 15 encounters. 

Oops, i need to start a new game before this little bug gets patched out.

Sigh. It isn't a bug, but a value that will probably be brought down to something a little more sane.

[orzelek]

Hmm so I missed the fact that scenarios give knowledge...
I wonder how that did happen

[Kemeno]

As for size, yea, succeeding X scenarios doesn't guarantee a particular size class, though I'm curious when people are getting their first DD and CA hull (minimums are 2nd and 5th scenario, respectively).  Though if it's a neinzul hull that may be a bit of a nelson laugh from the RNG depending on how much you like that variation.

Just thinking out loud here but maybe class sizes should be guaranteed depending on the number of missions you've completed? So missions 1-2 give you a Frigate hull, missions 3-4 or 3-5 give you a Destroyer hull, etc. Getting a new frigate hull when you have a destroyer or cruiser is just kinda meh since you're never going to use it (the associated module rewards might also be useless), so I think this might encourage people to play with different hull types a bit more since you're always getting something valuable/new/shiny. You might not always have every tier of every champion line unlocked in order but I don't see why that'd be a problem.

Also good call on the cloaked-engineering-pit-crew. I forgot they could repair out of supply and I guess the cloak would keep them pretty safe

[Shrugging Khan]

Well, how about giving ship types and size levels independently? That way, your rewards might be

1. Neinzul Hull
2. Random Thing
3. Destroyer Size
4. Random Thing
5. Spire Hull
6. Random Thing
7. Random Thing
8. Cruiser Size
9. Random Thing
etc.

You'd get to play with everything eventually (not being forced to use something you really don't like).

[Hearteater]

I don't know that you should ever get "everything" in a given game.  Much like how you don't get all bonus ship types in a game.  Besides, even if it was made so you could get everything now, if more hulls or modules are added later, you'll be behind again.  I'd rather see the set of things we get be large enough to give interesting choices in a game (no, "drat, I guess I'll use this because that's all I'm ever getting") but not large enough that you can plan on a specific set of hulls/modules always being available from the beginning of the game.

[LaughingThesaurus]

A thought on champions:

My mentality on champions is a bit off because of how I'm thinking about them. I'm not thinking in terms of AI War, but in terms of actually developing a character. In terms of developing a character, I like long-term development that can, if I am so persistent, result in going even beyond specialization into mastery of everything. I'm talking like, on the Elder Scrolls level of how hard it is to make a maxed out character stat and skill-wise in say Oblivion... but without that sort of leveling system. Champions, to me, don't really "feel" like a bonus ship. They feel like a character I should be able to develop in all kinds of spectacular ways.
While that must be partly what you're going for, the weird thing is sort of how the unlocks work. I imagine eventually, champion modules and hulls will get so plentiful that you will eventually not be able to get all or even most branches in one game. It's more of a "You get what you get" like bonus ships are. Developing a character with that sort of sense ends up bothering me probably more than it should. It feels like an RPG, I feel like I should be able to do everything and save the world when that is obviously not the case.
So... any of my XP gripes or likewise are because I only ever thought of it the wrong way. Would you say that's about right?

[Shrugging Khan]

I don't know that you should ever get "everything" in a given game.  Much like how you don't get all bonus ship types in a game.  Besides, even if it was made so you could get everything now, if more hulls or modules are added later, you'll be behind again.  I'd rather see the set of things we get be large enough to give interesting choices in a game (no, "drat, I guess I'll use this because that's all I'm ever getting") but not large enough that you can plan on a specific set of hulls/modules always being available from the beginning of the game.

In a way, this raises the issue of the player not wanting to level up modules because they don't know if those modules will even be useful on the highest-tier ships they'll unlock. It's a bit mean to have someone pump all his XP into a line of modules, only to find out that the Ship he can use them with is stuck on a low tier because only other types were unlocked.

Well, I guess there's other solutions for that one.

[chemical_art]

Having modules not be refundable, having xp be finite, and having the end game of the champion (in the form of what hull it gives and what extra modules I get) makes me very hesitant to actually take advantage of the modules fully, since I don't want to waste very precious xp if they are not going to be useful on my cruiser.

[Hearteater]

I don't have as much of an issue with unlocking all Marks of a module as unlocking every hull type and module line.  This might be a difficult level thing.  At higher difficult it becomes more difficult to max out every module you do get.  But it is the module lines and hulls that I think should be available in enough scarcity to create interesting choices each game, rather than the same choice.

[keith.lamothe]

Having modules not be refundable, having xp be finite, and having the end game of the champion (in the form of what hull it gives and what extra modules I get) makes me very hesitant to actually take advantage of the modules fully, since I don't want to waste very precious xp if they are not going to be useful on my cruiser.

Bear in mind that the mkI version of any available module (except the missile one, which I might make a gimme anyway, dunno; it helps to have one more thing you can spend the first few points on) is free, so you can try it without paying anything for it.

It's kind of the same situation as most starships: you can try out the mkI, but the higher ones cost knowledge.