Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.033 "And Other Times There Are A Few Too Many Ponies" Released!  (Read 9687 times)

Offline x4000

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Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2012/04/ai-war-beta-5033-and-other-times-there.html

This one is mainly more balance based on the "worst unit of all time" polls.  Interestingly, with last patch's improvements to the harvesters we actually went a bit too far -- so, yeah, we're totally taking that pony back. ;)  More interesting is what is getting buffed this time, which includes the Neinzul Enclave Starships and the Armored Warheads.

Some History On Armored Warheads, For The Curious
The armored warheads in particular have been an ongoing bugbear for me since AI War was just having released its 1.0 version. I think that lightning and armored warheads were the first two "free DLC" ships to come out for the game, but I could be mistaken.

At that point the armored warheads were something of a safety valve for when a target you needed to kill was impenetrably well defended and you just couldn't get at it any other way.  In that circumstance, you could basically just pay a fee in AIP (that was more or less how the armored warhead worked) and then Get That Thing Dead Now.

That was useful, but again only as a safety valve and only when you were already doing pretty bad to begin with.  It could let you turn a stalemate into a victory (or into a hastened defeat if the AIP increase proved to be too much, as it often did).  So it was a pretty interesting mechanic, and I think it worked really well.

Of course, then the game changed all around it.  I'm reminded of the old man's house in the movie Up, where his house never changed but there are skyscrapers all around it rather than the rest of his neighborhood.   How depressing!  I think the armored warhead must feel a bit like that.

Because, fact is, the need for a Get That Thing Dead Now (in exchange for AIP) unit has pretty much dissipated.  The way that AI forces and player forces are balanced, and the way that players can use tactics to take apart pieces of a planet rather than having to engage the entire planet at once, have really altered things.  It used to be that if you went to a planet, you had pretty much better have been ready to take on everything at that planet.  And that was then, as now, often quite infeasible.

Armored warheads are something we've thus updated every so often as the game has evolved, trying to find a new niche for them, but the simple fact is they just don't fit super well anymore.  It looks like the current set of changes to them that Keith plus the players came up with are good ones, and certainly bring them back into the realm of usefulness.  As he notes in the release notes, though, they are still "rot your teeth" sort of options that you only pull out when it's already going poorly.

That's as good a role as any for them at this point, and it's definitely the direction I would have gone myself as well, but it's certainly nothing compared to the glory days that the armored warheads once had.  I just thought I'd point out that they weren't always such a strange blend of powerful and useless, since most newer players wouldn't have any context as to why they existed in the first place.

About The Neinzul Enclave Starships
These are another interesting sort of case.  They were obviously added as part of our second expansion, and in some respects I had imagined them as being the flagships of the neinzul fleets.  After all, with the short-ranged neinzul youngling ships you really need a mobile factory of some kind to crank those out right at the battlefield.

Problem is, these have always been too expensive in terms of knowledge to be worth it, and then we added the player warp gates and that really further reduced the need for a mobile factory.  Back before the player warp gates I had been worried about the unbalancing effects of having a "super factory" that would basically replace the space dock in terms of being the go-to unit.  Goodbye beachheads and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Well, as fate would have it, the game evolved a ton since then anyhow.  The enclave starships got further marginalized, and I agree they've turned into one of the more useless ships.  So now it's actually pretty cool to see them as these mobile death-star-like ships they're suddenly turning into.  Or at least a star destroyer, I'd have to say. ;)  The mark IV one still has to be prohibitively expensive in terms of knowledge or it breaks all kinds of things, but the mark I-III ones are now really enticing, I have to say.  I look forward to seeing what other folks do with these, and I have a feeling I'm going to start using these a lot more myself, too.



Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
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Offline Diazo

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Ohhh. Sneaky trying to slip this one out!  :P

Anyways, wiki updated for changes.

D.

Offline zoutzakje

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ohh thanks for the update ^^
I really didn't expect any so close before the release of AVWW. Awesome =)
also ponies rule :P I read that bit about ponies in the AVWW board. Funny :D
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 04:13:59 am by zoutzakje »

Offline Nodor

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Note: The tooltips on the Nienzul ships do not reflect the 4X resource burn rate (but it's there).  So for instance, they seem to build fighters at 480 M&C a second vs. 120/second.  - But the queue says it's spending 120, the resource flow tab says 480.


Offline keith.lamothe

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Note: The tooltips on the Nienzul ships do not reflect the 4X resource burn rate (but it's there).  So for instance, they seem to build fighters at 480 M&C a second vs. 120/second.  - But the queue says it's spending 120, the resource flow tab says 480.
Ah, thanks, that makes sense.  I had to add a new mechanic to do that multiplication of build rate, and I got some of the spots it needed to affect the display, but evidently not all ;)
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Offline PokerChen

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The mark-IV scout starship doesn't say that it has counter-missile coverage, as per patch notes of 5.028. Is this a case of ship descriptions not being updated?

Offline Bill Whitmore

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It looks like the recent changes to the Lightning Warheads may have introduced a bug.  The Lightning Warheads launched by the Neinzull Rocketry Corp Silo are causing AI progress to increase each time one detonates.  Since these things are indestructible, the two silos that are on alert in our current game are often increasing the AI Progress by 2 and 3 points every 15 minutes.

The description of the Neinzull Rocketry Corp Silo pretty explicitly states that "[t]hese warheads do not cause any AI progress upon detonation" and in fact, the EMP ones still don't.

Been loving the game, thanks!

Offline keith.lamothe

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It looks like the recent changes to the Lightning Warheads may have introduced a bug.  The Lightning Warheads launched by the Neinzull Rocketry Corp Silo are causing AI progress to increase each time one detonates.  Since these things are indestructible, the two silos that are on alert in our current game are often increasing the AI Progress by 2 and 3 points every 15 minutes.

The description of the Neinzull Rocketry Corp Silo pretty explicitly states that "[t]hese warheads do not cause any AI progress upon detonation" and in fact, the EMP ones still don't.

Been loving the game, thanks!
Welcome to the forums, glad you're enjoying the game :)

And you're exactly right on the NRC-lightning-warhead thing, thanks for reporting that; we've fixed it for the next version (5.034) :)
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Offline chemical_art

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Offline Sunshine!

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Not related to this most recent patch, but I've been gone for a while only to come back and find out plasma siege starships are now one of my favorite units!  :o

Offline Cyborg

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Not related to this most recent patch, but I've been gone for a while only to come back and find out plasma siege starships are now one of my favorite units!  :o

They're just luring you in… lipstick on a pig and all that.

I suppose I should try them again, but I've just been burned so much by them in the past…
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Offline keith.lamothe

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They're just luring you in… lipstick on a pig and all that.

I suppose I should try them again, but I've just been burned so much by them in the past…
The feeling might be mutual, even pigs have feelings ;)
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Offline redphoenix

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I have a big problem in the current version, which is propably a bug. I'm playing against an experimentalist ai and as soon as there is one single microparasite present at a system, ALL ai ships on this planet seem to have reclamation ability (including even guardians). At least suddenly every ship of my fleet that is killed goes over to the ai when killed (with full health by the way) although the microparasite is miles away and never shot on any of these ships itself. This is extremly annoying and makes playing impossible.

Offline zoutzakje

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I have a big problem in the current version, which is propably a bug. I'm playing against an experimentalist ai and as soon as there is one single microparasite present at a system, ALL ai ships on this planet seem to have reclamation ability (including even guardians). At least suddenly every ship of my fleet that is killed goes over to the ai when killed (with full health by the way) although the microparasite is miles away and never shot on any of these ships itself. This is extremly annoying and makes playing impossible.
Parasites did get an upgrade recently, causing them to reclaim more than they used to (reclaimed ships always get full health). But the presence of a single microparasite shouldn't make every ship able to reclaim. Is it possible that you're not seeing something? There are guardians that reclaim, like the zombie guardian (and they can completely turn your fleet into zombies, if you don't notice them and leave them alone for to long).
Also, what is the other opponent you're playing against? Golemite for example makes use of Botnet Golems, which can easily zombify your fleet in seconds.
Try to find out what you're dealing with and use starships. they can't be zombified.