AI War Beta 5.031, "Harvest Of The Unloved," Released!

[Hearteater]

Pre-patch (5.027): 15 Chamleons reclaimed out of 401 in the 33 seconds required to destroyed the wave, using 3 Leech Starships (plus bunches of non-reclaimers)
Post-patch (5.031): 30 Chamleons reclaimed out of 401 in 32 seconds

Note however that I didn't get my second Fort II up in time in the post-patch run, but I had improved mines.  You'll notice the times were nearly identical.

[Ktoff]

I love the changes to the Warp-Jammer. I never used it, it was just too expensive knowledge wise, but now....

I'll try it out as soon as I find time, which is hard to come by unfortunately :-(

[Ranakastrasz]

The new mines are quite effective.
Also, When did the AI learn to use Riot control starships? I thought they were human only....

Also, Do warp jammers stop raid-engines from going off? The current game I'm in seems to have an AI with a raid engine on around 80% of it's planets...

Oh, and I might actually get some harvester exoshields this time, seeing as they appear to be cost effective now, at least if you have trouble on a particular planet.... Cloaking scales very nicely to late game, so T3 or so bombers don't mean *All harvesters dead, regardless of high maintenance shield*

[Wanderer]

Also, Do warp jammers stop raid-engines from going off? The current game I'm in seems to have an AI with a raid engine on around 80% of it's planets...

It shouldn't.  Raid Engines react to military presense, not alert status.  sounds like you pulled the raid engine AI.

[keith.lamothe]

Also, When did the AI learn to use Riot control starships? I thought they were human only....

They've been able to get Riots ever since exos were added, since riots can seed in exos.  Are you seeing them in some other context?  In any event, not a bug, but I'm curious if they snuck in some other way I wasn't aware of.

Also, Do warp jammers stop raid-engines from going off? The current game I'm in seems to have an AI with a raid engine on around 80% of it's planets...

I don't think they have any impact on raid engines, I think raid engines directly check "does this planet or any adjacent planet have enemy ships?".

Oh, and I might actually get some harvester exoshields this time, seeing as they appear to be cost effective now, at least if you have trouble on a particular planet.... Cloaking scales very nicely to late game, so T3 or so bombers don't mean *All harvesters dead, regardless of high maintenance shield*

If it's just for the sake of protecting the harvesters, I figure they're still not really worthwhile unless you've got a 12-harvester world that gets regularly attacked or something like that.  But at least they're not so obviously a bad deal for protection.  The main reason I'd take them is if there were some defensive situation where the AI's getting distracted by my harvesters was proving really problematic.  Not sure how often that happens.

[Hearteater]

Could be an issue when using mine paths now that they last 16 hits.

[Wanderer]

If it's just for the sake of protecting the harvesters, I figure they're still not really worthwhile unless you've got a 12-harvester world that gets regularly attacked or something like that.  But at least they're not so obviously a bad deal for protection.  The main reason I'd take them is if there were some defensive situation where the AI's getting distracted by my harvesters was proving really problematic.  Not sure how often that happens.

At 60,000 Power to keep 12 of them up, that's a MK I/II generator combo.  The only reason I could see using it is to keep the enemy from haring off in random directions after the harvester posts, but I find that tactically too useful.

[Ranakastrasz]

(Hopefully I didn't screw up the quotes too much....

They've been able to get Riots ever since exos were added, since riots can seed in exos.  Are you seeing them in some other context?  In any event, not a bug, but I'm curious if they snuck in some other way I wasn't aware of.

Alright, That explains it. Yes, it was an Exowave.

I suppose we have to be more careful with new designs, or else the AI will steal, and improve on it, eh?

If it's just for the sake of protecting the harvesters, I figure they're still not really worthwhile unless you've got a 12-harvester world that gets regularly attacked or something like that.  But at least they're not so obviously a bad deal for protection.  The main reason I'd take them is if there were some defensive situation where the AI's getting distracted by my harvesters was proving really problematic.  Not sure how often that happens.

Hmm... Well, I am using them on front-line worlds currently, and removing them further back (like is intended ofc)
Once I get a whipping boy set-up, I imagine that I will be able to remove most or all of them.

Could be an issue when using mine paths now that they last 16 hits.

Maybe... It appears that mines do not have cooldowns, which in the case of EMP mines, seems a bit off, seeing as It stunned around 10 or so of my ships for 3 minutes, but did not effect the rest of my fleet. Perhaps have the EMP mines prioritize lowest-stunned ships?
And speaking of mine paths, I might have to try that, seeing as I have some issues with defence. Do mines hit cloaked units?

I don't think they have any impact on raid engines, I think raid engines directly check "does this planet or any adjacent planet have enemy ships?".

Hmm, So if you take a world next to a raid engine, warp jammers will not help... Well then, I guess I will have to continue to send my entire fleet via transports to the raid engine, take it out, then come back to take nearby planets. Oh well, at least it works now.....
Still, I think that raid engines ought to be effected by warp-jammers.

[Nodor]

<snip>
Still, I think that raid engines ought to be effected by warp-jammers.

I still want to be able to destroy them by ramming them with transports.  Raid Engines are EVIL.

[TechSY730]

Still, I think that raid engines ought to be effected by warp-jammers.

Do you mean completely suppressed by an adjacent one, or merely like how warp-jammers handle alertness, mere adjacency won't trigger one, but if you send your forces in or take that planet or a planet adjacent to it without a warp-jammer, it will still trigger?

[Hearteater]

I'd say the latter, if Warp Jammers were going to get that ability.  Which, I should mention, is pretty interesting sounding.  I'm wondering though if it would be too mandatory* for Core/Home Worlds with Raid Engines.

* Mandatory in that it is so much easier to do with a Warp Jammer CS that everyone does it that way.

[keith.lamothe]

For Core Raid Engines I'd say:

1) If absolutely necessary, clear out an adjacent core world, pull back, deal with the raid engine spawn.
2) Somehow, some way, kill the stupid thing.
3) Then move in and colonize the adjacent core world with a a warp jammer.
4) Beachhead into the homeworld with forcefields, turrets, fortresses, etc.

In other words: gotta deal with the engine first

[c4sc4]

They've been able to get Riots ever since exos were added, since riots can seed in exos.  Are you seeing them in some other context?  In any event, not a bug, but I'm curious if they snuck in some other way I wasn't aware of.

I found that they commonly spawn when you start popping a lot of carriers, but if I'm not mistaken the new carrier logic is like the exo logic so it makes sense.

[keith.lamothe]

They've been able to get Riots ever since exos were added, since riots can seed in exos.  Are you seeing them in some other context?  In any event, not a bug, but I'm curious if they snuck in some other way I wasn't aware of.

I found that they commonly spawn when you start popping a lot of carriers, but if I'm not mistaken the new carrier logic is like the exo logic so it makes sense.

Yep   The AI loves it when you pop the carriers early.

[Eternaly_Lost]

They've been able to get Riots ever since exos were added, since riots can seed in exos.  Are you seeing them in some other context?  In any event, not a bug, but I'm curious if they snuck in some other way I wasn't aware of.

I found that they commonly spawn when you start popping a lot of carriers, but if I'm not mistaken the new carrier logic is like the exo logic so it makes sense.

Yep   The AI loves it when you pop the carriers early.

My Spire Fleet loves it to. They do a lot better with a few small ships, then the 1000s of little ones that were in those carriers before.