AI War Beta 5.026, "Pay Attention, Exos!" Released!

[Wanderer]

Hybrid hive behaviour:
@GUDare
So would this new boolean option of Hybrid Special Plots would cover all hybrid interactions with other plots and/or minor factions? That seems like a good idea. As it is currently, the choice of normal or advanced hybrids should influence how nasty the new behaviours are.

Well, they do.  Dyson Antagonizer is a two stage build.  First stage any super-hybrid can build (which comes from any hybrid).  Second stage Antagonizer only the Advanced Hybrid super-hybrid can build.  So, the level of difficulty is there.

[orzelek]

Hybrid hive behaviour:
@GUDare
So would this new boolean option of Hybrid Special Plots would cover all hybrid interactions with other plots and/or minor factions? That seems like a good idea. As it is currently, the choice of normal or advanced hybrids should influence how nasty the new behaviours are.

Well, they do.  Dyson Antagonizer is a two stage build.  First stage any super-hybrid can build (which comes from any hybrid).  Second stage Antagonizer only the Advanced Hybrid super-hybrid can build.  So, the level of difficulty is there.

Not currently.. I had two normal hybrid plots and I had the converter. Gatling rate was at 8 per spawn.

My economy was not so well - so handling that many and hybrid strike force(40-50) was outside of my range. I think from discussions that were here some time ago that high mark economy command stations are required not optional (I'm usually not getting higher marks of these).

As for engine damage and Plasma Sieges:
It's neat until it gets all your fleet stranded in middle of AI planet. With ultra-low caps it can affect quite large part of your fleet.. but it seemed somewhat random (got 30-40 ships stranded or only few). With current way of working sieges take part of riots role - maybe even better at it since most of standard ships hit by it will get full engines damage after first shot. I didn't use them much so hard to tell how they behave for player.

[Wanderer]

I screwed up my post, this was the original I meant to quote:

Quote from: orzelek on Today at 02:31:12 AM

Not currently.. I had two normal hybrid plots and I had the converter. Gatling rate was at 8 per spawn.


Gyeah.  That sounds like a bug.  Normal Hybrid, afaik, should only build the 2x spawn antagonizer (3x if you build a local station).  Ooooh, Keith?  (I really apparently need to go retest)



Quote

My economy was not so well - so handling that many and hybrid strike force(40-50) was outside of my range. I think from discussions that were here some time ago that high mark economy command stations are required not optional (I'm usually not getting higher marks of these).




I find them to be required.  Others will disagree with me.  Depends on your style.  I'm incredibly aggressive so I need ship/turret replacement funds.



Quote

As for engine damage and Plasma Sieges:
It's neat until it gets all your fleet stranded in middle of AI planet. With ultra-low caps it can affect quite large part of your fleet.. but it seemed somewhat random (got 30-40 ships stranded or only few). With current way of working sieges take part of riots role - maybe even better at it since most of standard ships hit by it will get full engines damage after first shot. I didn't use them much so hard to tell how they behave for player.




I don't think the # of ships affected changes by cap count.  That's something that probably should definately be looked into, but again... oooooh, Keith? 

I like them for the player.  My current game they're not as obviously effective since my Maws inhale everything under the ffs, but they're very effective to clean out the annoying buggers just wailing away on you.  I've also used them as a stall tactic, which is nice.  They can't fight completely on their own but they can keep your fleet from being flanked for a minute or so if used well, which is all you should normally need.  Though, they usually don't live through that action for me...  Poor little guys.

Not currently.. I had two normal hybrid plots and I had the converter. Gatling rate was at 8 per spawn.

Gyeah.  That sounds like a bug.  Normal Hybrid, afaik, should only build the 2x spawn antagonizer (3x if you build a local station).  Ooooh, Keith?  (I really apparently need to go retest)

No bug, just re-tested.  (Took an ~hour to build the antagonizer?!)  2 gatling spawns during initial antagonizer build.  Two fortresses can stop this easily, I've overbuilt again.  Well, it'll hang on for the next stage I guess.  I'll let it run awhile.

[Wanderer]

Ah, the 8x spawn is the Dyson Converter.  That's supposed to be the stage two of the antagonizer.  You're seeing that in a regular hybrid game?  Wierd.

It's handleable with a significant defense.  I've got the new HBCs, a stack of Laser IIs, a pair of fortresses, and ~250 friendly dysons backing me up and we're holding the line.  So, yes.  Run, run very fast.

What's wierd though is I never saw a notification of the converter being built.  Antagonizer gave me around an hour's worth of warning.  After an hour, the antagonizer just became a converter, no warning.  Odd.  Well, I have a saved game now with the converter (and an overpowering position) if there's other changes that need checking.

And yes, Keith, 8x is just nasty.  Yeeesh.  I might still Mil III it and see what the bare minimum is to hold it.

[keith.lamothe]

Sorry about the converter building on normal hybrids, that is a bug   On the top of my list...

[Burnstreet]

the release notes still say it's to be released...

[c4sc4]

the release notes still say it's to be released...

Hehe, I'll fix that.

[keith.lamothe]

Thanks, I totally missed that

[Spikey00]

Fitting this minor qualm in, but the bug reporter is still one beta behind in the version dropdown list.

[TechSY730]

If the warbirds and the beam starship are now being balanced like a Mk. V starship, will they now be considered by the game to be Mk. V units?

[keith.lamothe]

If the warbirds and the beam starship are now being balanced like a Mk. V starship, will they now be considered by the game to be Mk. V units?

Indeed, with all the immunities and hatred thereunto belonging

[TechSY730]

If the warbirds and the beam starship are now being balanced like a Mk. V starship, will they now be considered by the game to be Mk. V units?

Indeed, with all the immunities and hatred thereunto belonging

Awesome!

EDIT: Wait, does the game automatically give Mk. V units certain immunities, even if they were not explicitly given in the ship type's definition?

[keith.lamothe]

EDIT: Wait, does the game automatically give Mk. V units certain immunities, even if they were not explicitly given in the ship type's definition?

Yea, all mk5 stuff gets:
IsImmuneToReclamation
IsImmuneToNuclearExplosions
ImmuneToEMPs

[orzelek]

Few things I noticed while playing on ultra low caps:
- Black Widow golem = death, all your fleet tractored and paralyzed only stationaries and tractor immunes can fight (granted my fleet was not very large due to only one ARS capture)
- Bombards in hands of AI = poor transports. They are excellent in making sure that transport range is one planet and it neatly explodes on other side of wormhole. Strings of transport have a bit more luck.. unless magically the full one gets targeted
- Spire mini rams - as they were.. anything remotely looking like starship feels very badly - jump through wormhole means heavy damage for spire fleet or your starships

[TechSY730]

Few things I noticed while playing on ultra low caps:
- Black Widow golem = death, all your fleet tractored and paralyzed only stationaries and tractor immunes can fight (granted my fleet was not very large due to only one ARS capture)

Classic example of why tractor beam count needs to scale with ship cap on non-scaling ship cap ship types

- Bombards in hands of AI = poor transports. They are excellent in making sure that transport range is one planet and it neatly explodes on other side of wormhole. Strings of transport have a bit more luck.. unless magically the full one gets targeted
- Spire mini rams - as they were.. anything remotely looking like starship feels very badly - jump through wormhole means heavy damage for spire fleet or your starships

Classic "edge" cases showing that in extreme circumstances, Nx fewer sips with Nx times the power and durability is not always the same across various Ns (including 1)
Basically, you can't truly have equivalence with every ship cap level in all situations, only most of them.

EDIT: Also, any progress on adjusting most base ship caps (the ones on high) for fleet ships to be multiples of 8, so rounding error doesn't start becoming a huge issue with EVERY fleet ship?