AI War Beta 5.026, "Pay Attention, Exos!" Released!

[orzelek]

Ok...
So how I do ask it nicely to go away from my normal hybrid game and go back to advanced one where it belongs?

I stayed away from adv hybrids settings to play nicely.. but  no point in continuing when antagonizer can be built.

(Unless using hybrids and dyson is meant to make sure you can't win...)

[keith.lamothe]

Ok...
So how I do ask it nicely to go away from my normal hybrid game and go back to advanced one where it belongs?

I stayed away from adv hybrids settings to play nicely.. but  no point in continuing when antagonizer can be built.

(Unless using hybrids and dyson is meant to make sure you can't win...)

From the beginning of the game, you can:

1) Delay the spawning of the super hybrid by killing lots of hybrids.
2) Prevent the super hybrid from starting the antagonizer by killing it before it tries (this is somewhat unlikely due to how far away it will tend to be).
3) Prevent the super hybrid from actually finishing the antagonizer by killing the super hybrid (this is easier as it will generally be much closer to you)
4) Kill the antagonizer after it's been built to remove the spawns.
5) Or build a defense that can handle 2 Dyson Gatlings every however many seconds.

If it's really all that nasty I can nerf it again, but I'm looking for a bit broader feedback before I do that

[Shrugging Khan]

It is quite annoying, especially on slow, 120 planet games. Even more so when you haven't even located the Dyson yet!

PS: Which is not to say that you ought to nerf it. Shrugger fears neither Hybrids nor Gatlings!

[orzelek]

It's not about nerfing it - it's more about being albe to choose if you want to play with it or not.
I had an impression that this would be an advanced hybrid only so if I want to play around with normal hybrids I don't need to worry about this.

And on 120 planet maze with Mk IV world as only way out.. 2/3/4 is not doable. 1 is difficult against 2 AI's with hybrid plot
5 is an option if I would have territory to do that and anything else - due to being boxed by Mk IV and hybrids I don't. I guess it's another win for hybrids then

Edit: As for 4th... 80m hp... ? killing that requires quite large fleet

Edit 2: No need for advanced hybrids to see converter.. sadly I'm not sure what it does since joined attack of hybrids and gatlings got me.

[zoutzakje]

yeah the new hyrbid plot got me destroyed as well, until Keith made friendly dysons able to shoot mk V targets as well. It was still a tough battle, but i managed to win that game and get 5 new achievs. Taking a break from hybrids for a while now though

[TechSY730]

So, is the consensus that a nerf to the new hybrid behaviour is needed?

Maybe not a major one, since even as is it is still decently beatible. But just enough so that it isn't so close to the difficult but fun and difficult but annoying line.

[keith.lamothe]

If I'm reading it correctly, I think the general desire is for more flexibility in what "enabling hybrids" means.  I'll make a note.

[zoutzakje]

I don't think another nerf is needed to be honest. I got destroyed because I didn't know what was happening. Now that I do know, I can do something about it. The super hybrid was occasionally roaming around a borderding enemy world. Whenever it does, taking it out right away should be anybody's highest priority. I even had some golems to make things easier. I just didn't think it was worth the trouble until I realized that it would build the antagonizer if I waited to long to destroy it. I can imagine this whole thing would be very troublesome and deadly on a 120 planet map without the dyson sphere or super hybrid(s) being anywhere near your systems though.

[Wanderer]

Regarding Super-Hybrid:
I personally believe Hybrid Special Plots should be a third option for them.  This way you can turn on/off hybrids and any further special plots that might come up.  They may require their own tab if you come up with enough of them.

The 2x Dyson spawn does not need to be nerfed.  It is handlable even if you're late getting to the Dyson.  It's not PRETTY, but it's manageable.  A defensive overload/fumble can also be recovered from, but it is expensive and you need to be rebuilding the 'lockdown' defenses while your fleet handles the fumble.

If you hit the Advanced Hybrid Superplot, you're screwed.  Run.  Run very fast or have an inane defense up.  Take the extra dyson spawn and build a military post on the planet, preferably MK III, you're going to need the turret boost.

Chasing down Super-Hybrid before it's ready to park and build the antagonizer can be an effort in futility.  The bugger is wily as heck and does NOT want to die.  It will run.  It will hide.  It will break for the AI homeworlds.  You can annoy it but killing it will require trapping it somehow.

Siege Engine ED:
Please don't touch this.  I LIKE this effect.  Sure, some of my fleet whines about being banged about a bit.  These are mostly defensive fleets and they have Engi Is nearby to deal with it.  What I'd like to see is the command station 'extras' be anti-siege.  Metal/Crystal Converters, Human habitats, and whatever the other one is called.  They can take the FF hits though so its more annoying then problematic.  The anti-engine damage though is one of the reasons I've started bringing Siege's along with my main fleet.  They're viable now in a fleet ball, and can help keep a line or two of attackers coming in from one direction slowed up while your main fleet deals with another vector.

Sieges don't show up in the AI's hands enough that I think they warrant a nerf based on AI usage.

[keith.lamothe]

If you hit the Advanced Hybrid Superplot, you're screwed.  Run.  Run very fast or have an inane defense up.  Take the extra dyson spawn and build a military post on the planet, preferably MK III, you're going to need the turret boost.

And I don't think you've even seen the final stage in action, just the first two.

Chasing down Super-Hybrid before it's ready to park and build the antagonizer can be an effort in futility.  The bugger is wily as heck and does NOT want to die.  It will run.  It will hide.  It will break for the AI homeworlds.  You can annoy it but killing it will require trapping it somehow.

It's funny, because I didn't give it any logic the normal hybrids don't already have in terms of self preservation, they probably just have more chance to trigger it due to more hp.

Siege Engine ED:
Please don't touch this.  I LIKE this effect.

Well, if folks want it there, I certainly don't mind leaving it.  I mostly want to achieve an equilibrium where people have a use for the ship if they want to use it, and where people don't complain much

[Wanderer]

If you hit the Advanced Hybrid Superplot, you're screwed.  Run.  Run very fast or have an inane defense up.  Take the extra dyson spawn and build a military post on the planet, preferably MK III, you're going to need the turret boost.

And I don't think you've even seen the final stage in action, just the first two.

True, not since you revamped them down a notch.  I understood from you it'd be the 5xspawn that the old one used to do, just a bit faster.  Hm, perhaps I'll crank up a game.  I'm in the middle of a series of games going from 9.0 through 10.0 on the same seed to see the differences in difficulty though, so I haven't gotten back to hybrids.  I did test the antagonizer though on the old save and the new version is much more reasonable.  I was able to push back that 'break' that occurred in the older version.

[Shrugging Khan]

Actually, IMHO, the Dysons should simply not come in at full strength right away. Let it be a trickle at first, giving the player time to react, and let it scale up to the frequency it has now over the course of half an hour or so.

[keith.lamothe]

True, not since you revamped them down a notch.  I understood from you it'd be the 5xspawn that the old one used to do, just a bit faster.

No, past that

[Wanderer]

True, not since you revamped them down a notch.  I understood from you it'd be the 5xspawn that the old one used to do, just a bit faster.

No, past that

Pardon, I misspoke.  The original antagonizer does 2x (3x with station on planet) now.  I understood the super-antagonizer was 5x now.  Guess there's one way to find out, though it does mean waiting a bit.  Though, you sped them up.  Hmmm, quick 7/7 100 worlder wouldn't hurt I guess.

[TechSY730]

About engine damage on Plasma Siege Starships:
I like the AOE engine damage thing too. I just think it is a problem of magnitude. Enough engine damage to instantly slow a decent group of ships to a crawl is a bit much. Problem is, I also want enough engine damage to actually make a difference against starships and up.

Maybe, have the full 1000 ED on the direct target, but any targets hit by the AOE (or chain lightning, whatever it is using) get a significantly smaller fraction, like 20 ED or something. That seems like a good compromise IMO.

Hybrid hive behaviour:
@GUDare
So would this new boolean option of Hybrid Special Plots would cover all hybrid interactions with other plots and/or minor factions? That seems like a good idea. As it is currently, the choice of normal or advanced hybrids should influence how nasty the new behaviours are.