Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!  (Read 15715 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2011, 08:08:52 pm »
I've heard it mentioned about stacking regular mark 1-3 shields with the shields on the Spire cities, but that dosn't make sense to me, one of the HUGE benefits of spire city shields is that you can shoot from under them without any damage modifier being applied.
Yea, that is one of the biggest advantages, but typically I find I need the extra hps from the human generators until I research the highest tier of spire city shields, or the exos punch through before I can kill them.

well, that kinda sucks, why not just make them like the regular shields and make it so the spire city weapons are immune to the shield damaging thingy.
It presents a good tradeoff, though: with the highest tier of spire shields you CAN use them without human generators and get the full insane firepower of the city, etc.  Or you can structure your defense in some other way so that you don't need quite as much "shield time" and get that full power earlier.

And if you position your capital ships properly they can get protection from the city fields but be outside the human fields, and still use their full firepower, etc.

Quote from: x4000
It may actually be time to start introducing higher-mark forcefields in general.  Perhaps we need to reduce the knowledge cost of the first three tiers only slightly, then add tiers 4-5 and make them cost enough knowledge so that getting to mark V is the same in K cost that getting to mark III previously was.  People have definitely expressed a desire for more force fields in general, and this would allow some specialization with them.
I was thinking of adding a separate line of "hardened forcefields" that would have maybe 1/3rd or 1/4th as much hp but a truckload of armor so that generally they take 1/5th damage from most incoming fire.  It's from a player idea some time ago I just never got around to.  Combined with increasing the number of standard generators allowed for each mark and probably buffing their hp a bit that would probably go a long way.

Quote
I also think that probably now is a good time to start letting force fields travel through wormholes again -- maybe.  Because the biggest exploit of cross-wormhole travel (engies repairing the force fields as they move with a fleet) is now solved in a much better way.
I thought the same thing but then realized it would let you do the ol' speed-build-a-new-generator trick on the other side of a wormhole and send it through straight into an under-siege ff-pile (almost always my piles are on top of a wormhole that leads deeper into my territory), which would get back into the asymptotically-high-durability problem, albeit in a less common case.

But yea, it'd be really nice to find some way of bringing back wormhole-traversing ff's in some way other than the Riot shields and spire capital shields.
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Offline Mayjori

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2011, 08:09:28 pm »
It may actually be time to start introducing higher-mark forcefields in general.  Perhaps we need to reduce the knowledge cost of the first three tiers only slightly, then add tiers 4-5 and make them cost enough knowledge so that getting to mark V is the same in K cost that getting to mark III previously was.  People have definitely expressed a desire for more force fields in general, and this would allow some specialization with them.

I also think that probably now is a good time to start letting force fields travel through wormholes again -- maybe.  Because the biggest exploit of cross-wormhole travel (engies repairing the force fields as they move with a fleet) is now solved in a much better way.

I'm liking where this is going ;), though having them able to go through wormholes seems a bit excessive for some reason, 5 of the highest tier shields popping through a wormhole and then building a bunch of zenith time warper thingies comes to mind as some of the cheese i could pull off with that. Where as right now i have to build them, which gives the AI a chance to react.

Offline Mayjori

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2011, 08:12:12 pm »
I like your idea with the hardened generators, maybe you could combine it with x4000 idea and make the top tier or two of FF generators the hardened ones and the lesser the current ones

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2011, 08:14:54 pm »
Yeah, probably the wormhole thing is still out.  At some point I still want to do FF starships, but right now riots sort of do that.

Anyway, yeah, I prefer the hardened FF line idea, Keith -- that plus the other general changes you mentioned to FFs should be a great thing to have as our next batch of free DLC (aka, the next beta).
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Offline Mayjori

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2011, 08:20:15 pm »
Yeah, probably the wormhole thing is still out.  At some point I still want to do FF starships, but right now riots sort of do that.

Anyway, yeah, I prefer the hardened FF line idea, Keith -- that plus the other general changes you mentioned to FFs should be a great thing to have as our next batch of free DLC (aka, the next beta).

bah I'm all excited about those changes now and its going to be a while till they're in, lol.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2011, 08:22:21 pm »
No, that's not really what I meant; I imagine they'll be in on Monday or Tuesday, depending on how Keith's schedule goes.  I just meant that this would be what counts as the "free DLC" in this batch of months -- hardened forcefields are a cool addition, and we always try to add something cool.
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Offline Mayjori

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2011, 08:25:40 pm »
No, that's not really what I meant; I imagine they'll be in on Monday or Tuesday, depending on how Keith's schedule goes.  I just meant that this would be what counts as the "free DLC" in this batch of months -- hardened forcefields are a cool addition, and we always try to add something cool.

monday or tuesday? that quick?! Wow, lol.

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2011, 08:30:07 pm »
I thought the same thing but then realized it would let you do the ol' speed-build-a-new-generator trick on the other side of a wormhole and send it through straight into an under-siege ff-pile (almost always my piles are on top of a wormhole that leads deeper into my territory), which would get back into the asymptotically-high-durability problem, albeit in a less common case.

But yea, it'd be really nice to find some way of bringing back wormhole-traversing ff's in some way other than the Riot shields and spire capital shields.

How about making force fields disabled for 60 seconds, and taking 20x as much damage after going through a wormhole? How about increasing the move speed of forcefields again, but after moving they also have a 5 second recharge period, taking the same 20x damage?

I was thinking of adding a separate line of "hardened forcefields" that would have maybe 1/3rd or 1/4th as much hp but a truckload of armor so that generally they take 1/5th damage from most incoming fire.  It's from a player idea some time ago I just never got around to.  Combined with increasing the number of standard generators allowed for each mark and probably buffing their hp a bit that would probably go a long way.

That is an interesting idea. An similar idea would be to give them far more durability, and have *negative* armor, hence take significantly more damage from massed light attacks, while heavy attacks deal little to no damage. (similar to Sc2 Immortal's hardened shield)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 08:32:54 pm by Ranakastrasz »

Offline Philo

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2011, 09:31:59 pm »
The higher mark forcefieds are kind of a good idea. But I'd like at least the mark V shield to cost more knowledge than the cost now for Mark III shield. It just seems fair.

Having more forcefields available would actually allow me to have regular FF's around most of my planets to protect from those neinzul buggers going off and destroying them. But then again, is it an intended game mechanic to really think about where you're putting up your scarce force field's to?
If it is, maybe just buffing the FF's in general would be better.
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But yeah, I don't wanna tell you how to do your job  :D

Offline Ranakastrasz

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2011, 09:35:47 pm »
The higher mark forcefieds are kind of a good idea. But I'd like at least the mark V shield to cost more knowledge than the cost now for Mark III shield. It just seems fair.

Having more forcefields available would actually allow me to have regular FF's around most of my planets to protect from those neinzul buggers going off and destroying them. But then again, is it an intended game mechanic to really think about where you're putting up your scarce force field's to?
If it is, maybe just buffing the FF's in general would be better.
--
But yeah, I don't wanna tell you how to do your job  :D
I agree that the higher level forcefields ought to use more knowledge. I also think a general buff to their durability, but not their ship cap is a good idea.

Offline Mayjori

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2011, 10:13:15 pm »
i fully agree with the higher knowledge cost, partially agree with the higher ship count, but i would make it VERY slight.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2011, 11:48:45 pm »
Although I would fully support higher tiers of forcefields, I will probably have to restart my game if you do so. The last few version have really "scammed" me out of my knowledge. I unlocked riot control starships, then they were made knowledge free. I unlocked up to Mk. III scouts, then their knowledge costs were severely reduced. Almost everything that received a knowledge cost reduction I unlocked before the reduction was released.  :'(

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2011, 07:16:41 am »
Lol -- well, lucky you in terms of future campaigns. Sounds like the changes have been in favor for your playstyle!
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2011, 12:35:47 pm »
Two quick questions.
1. If their are Mk. IV and V human forcefields introduced, will their be an AI Mk. IV forcefield and an adjustment to the AI Mk. V forcefield (as the AI already has one) accordingly?
2. Is a reduction to the knowledge cost of Mk. II and III forcefields planned? If so, I will wait until next version to restart my game. If not, I will restart now.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 5.015, "Martyred Forcefields," Released!
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2011, 12:42:24 pm »
Two quick questions.
1. If their are Mk. IV and V human forcefields introduced, will their be an AI Mk. IV forcefield and an adjustment to the AI Mk. V forcefield (as the AI already has one) accordingly?
2. Is a reduction to the knowledge cost of Mk. II and III forcefields planned? If so, I will wait until next version to restart my game. If not, I will restart now.

1.  We no longer plan to make IV and V for humans, see above.  Instead we're doing a hardened line of forcefields.
2. I'm not sure, but I don't think so.  It's up to Keith.
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