Author Topic: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!  (Read 5429 times)

Offline x4000

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AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« on: January 18, 2011, 03:34:57 am »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2011/01/ai-war-beta-4070-released-release.html

This one brings us very close to the next official release, which will be 5.0.  The last major issue is one multiplayer desync that we're chasing down.  As soon as that is resolved, we're pretty much ready to go.  There are a few last things we intend to tweak and fix, but it's expected that this is the last of the really large pre-5.0 betas.  And boy is this one large.

This one includes the last of the major pre-5.0 rebalancing that we're intending to do -- although feedback on ship balance is still welcome, as if there are further tweaks that seem needed from player reports, we will make them even prior to 5.0.  We're just done with the balancing work we're planning to do in the absence of further player reports.

The way that the AIs act around their own force fields is now a lot better in general, and so is their logic for how they act when there are a few player ships on their planets.  Cross Planet Attacks have seen a pretty large overhaul, with some helpful new text messages on arrival as well as some helpful-to-the-AI new rules adjustments for them that allow them to look in new places to find the ships needed to free for the CPA event.  Oh, and all CPAs are now twice as large, to make matters even worse.  With the larger wave sizes, it only makes sense, as in recent iterations the CPAs were not at all the terrifying events they once were.  Now they are again.

A large part of today was spent desync-hunting for that one main desync that people are experiencing.  We haven't found it yet, but we did find a number of other very obscure desyncs that hadn't been reported yet, and those are fixed.  Along with various other fixes resulting from the search, and also other little changes and fixes that were due to player reports, of course.

This is a standard update that you can download through the in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.

The AI War Schedule For The Next Few Days
So what next?  At the moment we're not really looking for large numbers of refinement suggestions from players, as we're trying to keep the number of potentially bug-introducing changes to a minimum.  Our plan is to mostly leave the codebase as-is, aside from those few changes that we either feel are safe to make, or just absolutely critical to make.

That said, if you do have an idea, always feel free to share -- they just go into the Considering or Minor Fix For Later or Feature For Later categories when we're not in an immediate position to address them.  But that doesn't mean we aren't interested, so keep firing away!

Meanwhile, what we are interested in for the short term are any last balance thoughts people have, any bugs that are critical to fix for 5.0, and most importantly any clues as to desyncs if you're having them.  And if you're playing multiplayer on the latest betas without any desyncs, we want to know that too!  When it comes to desyncs, there is very specific information that we need, so please be sure to read the desync reporting guidelines to make sure that we can make use of your report.  We appreciate it!  These are a specific form of bug that are very challenging to find, and thus require special reporting.

A Valley Without Wind Kicking Off
While we give this version of AI War some time to rest in player hands and make sure there aren't any critical issues, when we're not working on those last tweaks or the desync search, we're going to be starting in on A Valley Without Wind work.  A number of the music tracks are already done, and they are awesome.  Keith got the basics of the engine stripped down and split out for us to build the new codebase on, and I'm really excited to get working on both the code for that along with Keith, and the art stuff in all my new 3D rendering tools.

I hope to have some very early screenshots in a week or less, and we'll share some of the music at that time, too.  We'll also start doing some development diaries to talk about our progress on the game and specific topics related to that, since there's been a lot of interest in that sort of thing.  We're still shooting for a first public alpha version sometime in March, but it could theoretically be earlier, or more likely later, than that.  We'll know more as we get closer to that stage.

Enjoy!
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 03:53:56 am »
Yes! The new autobomb bonus to polycrystal should make sure I don't loose all my bombers each time I encounter them! :)

Edit: I have been wondering, do leech starships need a boost? Right now they don't seem to do much for me at all.

Edit2: Should transports be inume to gravity effects? Or does that open too much abuse on them? Spire gravitydrains got a bad habit of killing my transports... (well, until I set my Golem loose on em)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 04:50:25 am by Ozymandiaz »
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 07:54:26 am »
Edit2: Should transports be inume to gravity effects? Or does that open too much abuse on them? Spire gravitydrains got a bad habit of killing my transports... (well, until I set my Golem loose on em)

Setting your Golem loose on em (assuming you have one) is a good answer to many tricky situations this game throws at you.  :D

Anyways, good luck with your desync hunting. Sounds like a very obscure issue you have to find. Ouch.

One last though. I would like to reiterate my comments I made on the zenith trader change I posted on the bugtracker, so our non-bugtracker regulars can see my thanks too.

Quote from: TechSY730
Sorry to bug you, but the players have spoken. ;)

Thanks for compromising a bit on this though. It should help make people turn on traders again but still fear what they can do for the AI. Also, it still keeps the chance of a trader visiting a certain human planet down, even if the chance to visit any human planet goes up with more planets captured, so your original goal is still satisfied somewhat.

Oh, and I have redeemed myself of this change now. :D

Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 10:03:17 am »
The continuing balancing looks good. I am interested in how effective shuttles will now play out, and I really enjoy having Z-traders being truly neutral again in terms of location. Thank you!
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Offline superking

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 12:01:45 pm »
blade spawners are now incredibly OP, did they get changed recently? an AI planet with about 12 of them did incredible damage to my fleet.. the blades can reach anywhere in the system before dying an do at least 60,000 damage each for a grand DPS of what, 540,000/shipcap plus the onboard weapon? FFFffffffffffffff

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 12:13:02 pm »
blade spawners are now incredibly OP, did they get changed recently? an AI planet with about 12 of them did incredible damage to my fleet.. the blades can reach anywhere in the system before dying an do at least 60,000 damage each for a grand DPS of what, 540,000/shipcap plus the onboard weapon? FFFffffffffffffff
From the release notes:

Quote
* Spire blade spawners also no longer have direct guns.
** Thanks to MaxAstro for suggesting this change.

* Spire Blade Spawner
** Base Health from 30k*mk => 150k*mk (these have a really low ship cap).
** Energy Cost from 100 => 1000 (mkI costs half, as usual).
** Leaving Blade attack power at 60k*mk.
*** It spawns 1 blade every 2 seconds, so that's roughly 30k dps per spawner or 270k dps at a cap of 9 spawners (on high caps).  That's pretty high, actually, but most feedback has seemed to indicate a feeling that these are underpowered.  We'll see.

It can be nerfed (I thought the dps looked high), but I'd prefer it be based on input from multiple players who have actually used them in the 4.070+.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 12:17:58 pm »
I don't think I've run in to the AI using them yet (lucky me it seems), but when I used them they seemed pretty mean, at least in previous versions. I was rather surprised to see a buff actually.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 12:22:19 pm »
Well, only the health was buffed, because it was way, way low for a ship of that cap.  Its cap-health is still significantly below average; I could reduce it to a bit more than half what it now is and be on the very low end of the scale.  The attack has actually come down due to the removal of the normal guns.
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Offline x4000

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Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2011, 02:04:19 pm »
Beautiful Work Guys!! 

:)

-Teal



Offline Vinraith

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2011, 06:43:09 pm »
Quote
All cross planet attacks are now twice as large as they used to be. In essence, this puts them back to where they were on Normal before the prior version, as that seemed like a good level what with the new, larger wave sizes and such. On Low ship caps they will still be 1/2 what they were a couple of releases back, based on being quartered and now doubled. And for High ship caps, it's just now twice as large as it's ever been.

    Thanks to Vinraith for suggesting.

Quote
When there are simply too few ships in the galaxy for the desired tech level of CPA, in the past it always has counted downwards.

    So, for example, if you were supposed to get 5000 mark II ships in a CPA but it could only find 1000, then it would look to mark I ships to see if it could find any more.
    However, there were many common cases where there would even still be too few ships in the galaxy of the correct or lower levels. Now the game will loop back around and start including higher mark ships.
        So, to continue the example from above, if it had found 1000 mark II ships and, say, 500 mark I ships, then it would start adding mark III ships to the CPA as well. Odds are very good that it would find the remaining 3500 ships in even just one mark higher, so that would fulfill the order for 5000 ships.
        Of course, in the event that it doesn't find enough ships directly in the level above, it just keeps counting up, all the way to mark V.
    Bear in mind that certain ships are specifically excluded from CPAs: immobile ships, ships under force fields, ships in carriers, ships that are already free/threat, ships that are minor factions or zombies, ships that are being coordinated by a hybrid hive or similar, ships that aren't counted as "extended mobile military," starships, and guardians. These restrictions aren't new, but bear mentioning.
    Thanks to Vinraith and rustayne for reporting.

You're trying to get me lynched, aren't you?  ;D Ah well, at least when I get flattened by the next CPA that comes my way I know i have no one but myself to blame!

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 06:47:49 pm »
Yeah, it should be interesting to see the reactions to a lot of that, for sure.  Then again, CPAs were always a really tough sort of thing in the past, and recently they became more wimpy around the same time that waves did.  Then waves got their teeth back, and suddenly the CPAs weren't any worse than just a couple of big waves at once.

Well, no longer. ;)

There have literally been CPAs in the past that I  was unable to survive by any means other than warheads, occasionally even nuking a planet of my own just to kill off the huge swarm of AI ships there.  I think that sort of defensive backpedaling is pretty interesting, and was what made CPAs distinctive in the first place.

Of course, as you say, there might be some lynching -- and if I'm going down, I'm taking you with me!  ;D
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Offline Garthor

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 07:05:42 pm »
In terms of pulling different mark-level ships, could the number of ships pulled be at least scaled to their relative strength?

So that if the AI needs, say, 5000 mark II ships but can only get 1000, it will then pull 8000 mark I ships instead of crapping out at only 4000 and having a considerably weaker CPA.  That way you wouldn't have the CPA significantly weakened if it comes soon after the mark level going up.

I suppose that it would also mean you'd only pull 2667 or so Mark III ships in this case if no Mark I ships were found, which would be somewhat of a downgrade... but I guess that could be left in for consistency's sake.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 07:08:52 pm »
There's a couple of discussions on that in mantis.  Short answer is that I'm not in favor, as you were promised 5000 ships in that example, not any specific number of them.  And in late-game CPAs when the player has been keeping a low AIP but has been wreaking havoc over the galaxy for a long time, this actually works out perfectly as a good balancing agent.

General cases aren't going to be particularly murderous, unless your game really goes on for a long time, and then you ought to be prepared by that stage, etc.
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Offline Burnstreet

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Re: AI War Beta 4.070 Released -- Release Candidate 1!
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 08:19:20 pm »
The blades are evil in AI hands.
In my current game I have between 20 and 60 of them per planet at 600 AIP (diff 7.3).
This makes everything but blobbing impossible since you need 2-10 fleet ships per blade spawner just to kill off the blades before they kill your ships. You have to ensure 1 shot per second per spawner that is not distracted by anything else.
if you can't do that, just the 40 MK IVs I just had on one planet do up to 10m dps.
With 2k speed, most blades reach your fleet at 50-80% health.
Before the AIs got the spawners, I could clean a 400 ship MK IV world with only a cursed and an armored golem.
Afterwards, I tried cleaning a MK III world with both of them + 1 botnet + 1 black widow. I had to retreat after ~ 15 seconds because the black widow was near dead.
Maybe you can counter them with swarm type ships but I don't have any in my current game.