Author Topic: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!  (Read 4888 times)

Offline x4000

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AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« on: January 08, 2011, 02:05:34 am »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2011/01/ai-war-beta-4063-praying-mantis.html

Massive is the word for this release.  We're trying to get both AI War 4.4 and Light of the Spire in a release-ready state by sometime next week, so it's pretty much bugfixes and polish all the way down on this one.  The list of stuff in even just this release alone is pretty crazy long, though.

One particularly notable thing is that the in-game windowing system is completely rewritten from scratch using our own methods rather than the built-in windowing that comes with Unity 3D.  This way is a lot more flexible and solves a ton of flicker-related bugs, but if you see any new issues cropping up with windows in the UI, this is why.  So far we've seen nothing, but you may want to keep an eye out.

Science Labs Mark III have been completely reworked in their mechanics so that they are now a quicker, more intense, much more dangerous affair.  The Zenith Trader is now a much more elusive visitor, making him harder to capture wares from as a human (but he's actually a little less stingy than before with the AI).  We also fixed some stuff with regard to panning the screen by edge scrolling with the mouse.  And some stuff with animations going incredibly too slowly when you're using +10 speed.  And some stuff with military and nonmilitary ships not being able to be selected at the same time.  And that "phantom ships or health bars" issue is finally fixed.  Some tutorial-related bugs from the prior version, too.

Also of major note is that the AI's behaviors while "stalking" a player planet have been much improved.  They react better to the player building structures on their planets in general, too.  Forward sniper nests on AI planets will be a lot less effective, now.  Along with this, a lot of firepower fixes have been made, so that the AI also is better about deciding to attack rather than always letting it go so long while stalking you.  And actually, the advanced hybrid hives now have a lot more aggressive options now, too.  When you see "Defensive Hybrids Are Mobilizing" in the late game, it's time to scramble for some defenses of your own!

A goodly number of ships have been rebalanced moderately to significantly (laser gatlings, grenade launchers, etc), but perhaps the most welcome here is the marauders, which are less deadly now.  Still interesting, just not so you-die-now early in the game.  Scouts also got some buffs since they were hurting lately, and transports will also get brutalized less.  And scout starships now have a major speed boost going up in their ranks, making them finally more interesting to unlock when not facing counterspies.

A new ammo type has been added, with a new sound effect: Fusion Cutter.  See the release notes for details, but it's basically separating out the vampires and viral swarmers from the cutlasses and similar.  This is basically a buff for cutlasses, wasps, and spire blades, and not much of a change except in name of their ammo type for vampires and viral swarmers.

There's also a new base game achievement.  And literally dozens of other small items not mentioned here.  See the release notes for details.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 02:10:27 am »
AWESOME! You really dug through the bug-report archives for this one. Very clever title by the way. I've gotta try it now.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 02:17:57 am »
Thanks! :)

I'm really happy to -- however briefly -- have the list of to-be-done-soon-or-to-be-triaged count of mantis issues down to 150.  Before the holidays I was really happy to have it down to I think 400, for comparison, heh.  Good times.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 03:41:03 am »
:(  My Put-my-ZPG-on-my-fortress-homeplanet-strategy is ruined.  Why Chris?  Why torture me sooooooo.  :(

Red Spot and TechSY730.  Your dead meat.  ;)

In all seriousness though, good patches and like all but that tiny one, but I'll adapt. 

King
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Offline Red Spot

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 05:38:19 am »
:(  My Put-my-ZPG-on-my-fortress-homeplanet-strategy is ruined.  Why Chris?  Why torture me sooooooo.  :(

Red Spot and TechSY730.  You're dead meat.  ;)

In all seriousness though, good patches and like all but that tiny one, but I'll adapt. 

King

What is up with my dead meat? Is it starting to smell? :D


Thanks guys :)

Offline Oralordos

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 10:48:40 am »
So is the new achievement the one for winning after nuking everything in the galaxy?
*Runs off to get enough resources to build a Nuke Mark III*

Offline Tridus

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2011, 11:40:27 am »
"The Zenith Trader previously flipped back and forth between visiting one player planet and one AI planet. This led to the trader always showing up very early in the game, and returning pretty frequently. Now the trader only moves between AI planets, never intentionally going to a human planet. This means that the human players need to place themselves in the path between two AI planets that the trader will go between in order for the trader to visit them. This in turn will make Trader visits comparably more rare, and something that is more interesting as a way to capitalize on (as often you won't get as good of positioning for the stuff they will sell you)."


I'm kind of concerned about that. It sounds like they'll just be very rarely relevant at all now, given how rarely a player will see one. (It also doesn't make sense in a way, why would they try to avoid human players instead of just wandering around looking for business?)

Offline Vinraith

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2011, 11:48:47 am »
I'm kind of concerned about that. It sounds like they'll just be very rarely relevant at all now, given how rarely a player will see one. (It also doesn't make sense in a way, why would they try to avoid human players instead of just wandering around looking for business?)

Conversely, under the old system it was much, much too easy to tuck away a ZPG on your fortified homeworld and never have to worry about defending it. The trader was virtually guaranteed to float through any system you wanted it in within a small amount of time, and very unlikely to ever give the AI anything of note. In short, it was a "pure advantage" faction. I definitely prefer it with a bit more nuance.

Offline iamlenb

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 12:53:35 pm »
First off, thanks for the hard work and improvements!  I love your game and continued committed support.

***

Meh, much too newbie and missed the Zenith Trader discussion.  I guess I'll toss in 2 pennies after the fact, down a wishing well...

I'm kind of concerned about that. It sounds like they'll just be very rarely relevant at all now, given how rarely a player will see one. (It also doesn't make sense in a way, why would they try to avoid human players instead of just wandering around looking for business?)

Conversely, under the old system it was much, much too easy to tuck away a ZPG on your fortified homeworld and never have to worry about defending it. The trader was virtually guaranteed to float through any system you wanted it in within a small amount of time, and very unlikely to ever give the AI anything of note. In short, it was a "pure advantage" faction. I definitely prefer it with a bit more nuance.

Boldly stated opinion with very little grounding in play:
This makes the Trader a bit to haphazard with luck playing a larger part than strategy...  I liked having a ZPG at my homeworld and a superfortress a couple of doors down at the chokepoint.  This is a strategic decison.  I'd hate to try and figure out where the best place to build Zenith junk is based off the Trader's movements.  It's not a decision with immediate opportunity cost like "build it now, in system x, or lose it forever".  It becomes "watch the Trader wander around, and keep tabs on him.  Maybe he'll drop into one of the systems you want."

I dunno.  Make it cost something to bring the traders to your area, or make it a trading post with portable oneshot Zenith constructor ship per item and you have to get it where you want.  Make it part of the game in terms of active strategic decisions.  And make it fun, shopping should be deadly serious business FUN!

Beacon style thoughts:
Something like 1k knowledge to unlock the Trader Beacon, then have to build it.  Finally, you have to get it to the Traders, then protect it while you lead them back home.  It puts the planet where the Traders are coming from or even every planet passed through on alert or frees up some guards on the path to follow your Trader Beacon to your homeworld.  And if more than one faction has a Trader Beacon on a planet, there CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Zenith Trader: "Uh sorry Mad Bomber, I have to go check out the humans.  They might be interested in buying a whole bunch of stuff. a pain in the rear, really, but another day, another exocredit."

Mad Bomber: "Humans?  Pain?  Where"

Trading Post thoughts:
Maybe the Zenith Trader wanders until it finds a good planet to build a Post.  Once you've found it, you can get a one shot constructor that works for one type of item.  Then get them back to where you want to build.  Too big to fit in transports and Zenith constructors emit tachyon fields or something, non-cloakable.  Makes AI try to kill them before they get where you want em...

And if you take the planet with the Trading Post, the AI still drops in to "buy" stuff.   Maybe random planets where the AI plops down their Zenith goods go on alert.  Or the next waves are seeded with ships efficient against your new Zenith Purchases.


Anyways, if one does not like this change, "dysons and traders and bears oh my!" can always be spawned in the cheat menu.

-Len

Offline Red Spot

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 12:59:57 pm »
I think this works very nicely, unless, perhaps, if you want to start in some dead-end planet on a snake-map (at which point you may never see them, unless you a hop a planet somewhere).

As it stands you can still get all the goodies from the trader on your homeplanet. Nothing has changed there, it now however means you have to be boxed in with your homeplanet. (so they come if your startingposition isnt already an easier one)
+ enabling the trader hurts you more than it did before :)

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 01:09:09 pm »
Yep, Vinraith and Red Spot have pretty much stated my case for me -- thanks. ;)  Bear in mind that "let's add a bunch of more units and complexity" to the trader faction isn't really on the table.  It's true that there is now more of a random factor in when you get visited by a trader, but the random element is pretty core to AI War in general.  As with many things, some maps will be more trader-friendly and others will not. 

But even on a snake map, as the absolute worst example, there are many things you can do to ensure you get visited by a trader at some point (just not on your home planet if that's on a terminal map node, on a snake map or otherwise).  That's where the strategy comes in: planning your expansion with enticement of trader visits coming in.  Previously it was no strategy at all, it was just "wait for it to visit home planet, which it will shortly, then build all the best stuff and pause that stuff until ready to spend the cash to get it." 

Having players automatically have one (or sometimes two) Zenith Power Generators per game was never a goal; frankly I was almost tempted to take them out of the game, they can be so unbalancing to the economy. This change... is a less extreme way of dealing with that general sort of desire to not have super-homeworlds that are terminal nodes, and in general to give the player less options to just create a bottleneck to a corner of the galaxy and then put all his/her stuff there.  If you do that, the AI will never visit you.  If you leave one or two AI planets captive and neutered back in your territory until the trader does visit, then that can make for an interesting enticement strategy where you can try to set up that uber-bottleneck like you always could before.  So it can still be done, but it takes some actual thought and strategy now... and it's not a sure-thing, especially not in the early game.

In short, I think it's a lot more strategic now, and a lot less of a freebie.
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Offline iamlenb

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 01:56:40 pm »
I can live with this, since there's a cheat available if I get impatient and you pointed out that there are still ways to influence the Traders movement.  What about having the Trader only visit systems with an active warp gate?  That way it's a bigger trade off if you want them to visit your home system?  Although, I'd probably abuse that by letting the AI buy a whole bunch of neat stuff for their backdoor system after fortifying my home world and then nab it... hmmm.

Again, thanks for the hard work.  And my friend comes over tonight for our first MP Game of AI Wars.  Yay!   :D

Offline Sizzle

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 04:13:36 pm »
I'm not sure I quite understand how you'd get a trader to visit other than trying to deepstrike and intentionally create pockets of AI worlds that the trader has no path to get to other than through a world controlled by you, otherwise they'll route around your empire.

Also, does the trader choose the AI world it paths to at random? If so, say you create a pocket of 3 AI worlds, you'd have a 3/(80 - number_of_player_worlds)   say the player has 10 worlds here... so 3/70 or a 4% chance the trader could come visiting each time it changes it's mind as to destination...  seems like you'd be lucky some games to ever see the trader, and thats only with extreme effort on your part.  I think I'm not understanding the mechanic fully at all, this seems like a nerf with a 20,000 mile wide bat which isn't usually you guys' style.

Offline Zeyurn

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 05:07:27 pm »
I'll probably just turn Traders off with this update (although that may be the intent for people like me, which is fine) although I guess I'll see how it affects my game in practice.

I've no real interested in turning on a 'Give the AI free stuff' faction and the ZPGs aren't that exciting that I want to deal with AIs having more of the freebies they get from it just to get the energy.  Nor is much of the rest of what the trader can build for you particularly exciting with the ways I play.

Offline iamlenb

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Re: AI War Beta 4.063, "The Praying Mantis," Released!
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 05:19:44 pm »
I have a good seed to check out how hard it will be to" entice" the trader through my empire with on isolated AI world.  120 worlds, one deadend behind starting teleleechs homeworld.  Leave that one up and see how long it takes Traders to show up.  Guess I'll start with all planets scouted and monitor their travels.