Author Topic: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!  (Read 10342 times)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« on: December 07, 2010, 01:05:14 am »
Original post: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2010/12/ai-war-beta-4046-megaton-released.html

Good lord, this one is full of win.  There's so many various bugfixes and balance tweaks that again we'll just hit the highlights here, so be sure to read the release notes if you're wanting details.

The three current weakest bonus ship classes in the game should now be pretty exciting to use: Autocannon Minipods, Zenith Chameleons, and Tachyon Microfighters have been majorly buffed.

The most destructively-unbalanced type of unit has now seen a large number of changes: that would be parasites and leech starships.  The reclamation ability is now shiplevel-limited, and reclamators have to do a certain damage threshold on a target ship before a reclamation event will take place.  And all mark V ships are blanket non-reclaimable now, which had always been the intent but was spottily implemented in the past. On the plus side, their shots have become more focused and a lot higher-DPS, and they now are much more intelligent about actually targeting ships they can reclaim.  The end result we're shooting for is something that's fun and powerful, but not able to bypass advanced factories or large portions of the economic.

This one's huge: Advanced Research Stations should now be at the top of everyone's wishlist even more so than before.  Now when you capture an ARS, you not only get a new bonus ship type, you also get the mark II of that bonus ship type unlocked for no knowledge.  When you run across a new bonus ship type late in a campaign, we were realizing that just having the mark I of that bonus ship type made the ship type look lame in comparison to the mark II/III ships (or greater) you'd likely be fighting against.  This lets players experiment a bit more freely, and get a better sense for the things they might want to unlock III/IV from.

Speaking of unlocking mark III/IV fleet ships, those now cost an additional 1000 knowledge compared to before.  Partly this is in counterbalance to the above change, but also it's in response to the fact that III/IV are unlocked together.

And speaking of mark IV ships, those and mark V ships are now a lot cheaper in terms of metal/crystal.  They are now only 6x and 10x that of a mark I ship in their line, rather than 8x and 16x.  This also means that mercenaries are now only 60x a mark I ship's cost, rather than 80x.

Another pair of huge changes is to the engineers and Mobile Repair Station.  Engineers now take quadruple damage while in enemy territory, which makes them fine for use in protected beachheads, but very poor for use in the middle of battlefields where shots are flying.  Similarly, Mobile Repair Stations now have to spend 60 seconds recharging after moving before they can do any repairs.  So you can't just scoot them along with your fleet, constantly repairing anything that gets hit.  Instead, take it to a safe place on the AI planet, deploy it, and then retreat your damaged ships as desired.  These changes help to avoid some of the more exploitative uses of these two ships on offense.

Core Shield Generators, after much heated (and partially unfortunate) debate, have been made an optional feature that is default-on, but which won't be in existing saves.  Any existing saves that already have them will have them removed.  But there is now a new maintenance command (see the release notes) for turning them back on if you like them.  CSGs turned out to be more about player guidance and intermediate goals as far as why we kept them.

As for the deepstriking nerf we'd originally been aiming for with CSGs, there's a major new mechanic the AI now has.  Essentially, when it notices your military ships straying more than four planets away from your (or neutral/ally) territory, this causes the AI to really freak out for a while and start churning out ships to attack you.  Think of it like having four or five stars in Grand Theft Auto or one of those sorts of games.  Once you finish your deep raid, things go back to normal -- if you survive.  Note that most players only raid about four planets out anyhow, since that's the effective limit where transports can make a round trip, so it's just on one-way transport trips or long-range starship raiding where this would even be a thing.  It just makes that sort of ultra-deepstriking a lot more balanced and interesting, without removing it as a valid tactic.

We also fixed a number of targeting bugs, and made it so that ships with regen/vampirism can actually be properly killed by autotargeting (which needs to overkill them to make up for their abilities, and now does).  Attritioners are more awesome, wasps and spire blades are no longer stats-destroying or annoyingly explodey, and ships with zero engine health are still allowed to hobble along at an achingly slow pace, rather than being entirely stalled -- thus circumventing some trouble with certain AI ships "pinning" player ships in a can't-move-and-can't-be-repaired paradox.

And... other various stuff.  Those were the highlights, amazingly. Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 01:18:07 am by x4000 »
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline CoyoteTheClever

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 01:15:28 am »
"Think of it like having four or five stars in Grand Theft Auto or one of those sorts of games. "

This comparison made me laugh! :D

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 01:15:50 am »
 ;D
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Giegue

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 01:34:17 am »
whats that pic on the top you keep using?

Offline Vinraith

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 01:42:59 am »
Quote
One-way doormasters now seed with 3x as many data centers as normal, to make up for the AI Progress cost of all those black hole machines (30 each). It's still a harder AI than normal, but now not so egregiously so.

Err, black hole machines only give 10 AIP apiece, and of course you don't necessarily have to blow them up at all being as they're capturables.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 01:48:43 am »
whats that pic on the top you keep using?

That's the AI Beachhead.

Quote
One-way doormasters now seed with 3x as many data centers as normal, to make up for the AI Progress cost of all those black hole machines (30 each). It's still a harder AI than normal, but now not so egregiously so.

Err, black hole machines only give 10 AIP apiece, and of course you don't necessarily have to blow them up at all being as they're capturables.

Well, it still should be balanced fine: I was less stingy than I realized, is all, then. ;)

But the problem is that you can't go moving around at all with them on the map, since they affect transports and most starships.  So just cutting a path through planets means you have to cap a number of them to move at all (scouts aside), and then you could capture the ones on planets you actually take, of course, to at least save 10 AIP there.  But I tend to hop 3 planets at a time in many cases, whcih is an extra 30 AIP each.

I believe it used to be 30 AIP for a black hole machine until people complained in the past, and I forgot about the reduction.  Anyway, all the extra data centers still won't cover the extra AIP from the black hole machines most players would need to take, not quite.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline unclean

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 01:49:37 am »
Are galaxy icons ever going to be added to the Spire Shipyard craft? It's kind of weird seeing the death star looking Super Dreadnought running around with a light frigate icon.

whats that pic on the top you keep using?
AI Beachhead! You should be happy you haven't seen one yet.

Offline Vinraith

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 01:51:10 am »

Well, it still should be balanced fine: I was less stingy than I realized, is all, then. ;)

But the problem is that you can't go moving around at all with them on the map, since they affect transports and most starships.  So just cutting a path through planets means you have to cap a number of them to move at all (scouts aside), and then you could capture the ones on planets you actually take, of course, to at least save 10 AIP there.  But I tend to hop 3 planets at a time in many cases, whcih is an extra 30 AIP each.

I believe it used to be 30 AIP for a black hole machine until people complained in the past, and I forgot about the reduction.  Anyway, all the extra data centers still won't cover the extra AIP from the black hole machines most players would need to take, not quite.

I'm playing with a one way doormaster right now, actually. Actually a 3 planet hope would be 10 or 20, since presumably the other AI isn't an OWDM. So far in my game I haven't needed to take out many, then again I gather those data centers aren't seeded into existing games so I'm going to have to take care anyway. :) Since they're capturable, though, they are a significant defensive bonus to the player in many cases.

Incidentally, by that logic shouldn't grav drillers seed some extra data centers too?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 01:56:51 am by Vinraith »

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 01:56:46 am »
Are galaxy icons ever going to be added to the Spire Shipyard craft? It's kind of weird seeing the death star looking Super Dreadnought running around with a light frigate icon.

It's coming, it just hasn't been a priority since it's time consuming for me and they're functional for the moment.  But it's coming hopefully sometime this week, now that I'm through a lot of these more serious balance things (not that there isn't more -- but the most acute issues so far seem at least partially handled).

I'm playing with a one way doormaster right now, actually. Actually a 3 planet hope would be 10 or 20, since presumably the other AI isn't an OWDM. So far in my game I haven't needed to take out many, then again I gather those data centers aren't seeded into existing games so I'm going to have to take care anyway. :)

Incidentally, by that logic shouldn't grav drillers seed some extra data centers too?

D'oh, I was thinking double-doormasters.  I should really make that 2x data centers rather than 3x, in the light of that.  Thanks for the note.  And, yes, grav drillers also need the love.  Probably some others, too -- let me know if you or anyone else comes up with others that need it.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Vinraith

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 02:02:08 am »
Quote
Probably some others, too -- let me know if you or anyone else comes up with others that need it.

The other one that springs to mind is Alarmists. Maybe a little for Spec Forces captains too.

Edit: Raid Engines and Neinzul Nesters as well, though for the harder AI types maybe you should just be stuck with it.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 02:44:56 am by Vinraith »

Offline Echo35

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,703
  • More turrets! MORE TURRETS!
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 02:07:40 am »
Similarly, Mobile Repair Stations now have to spend 60 seconds recharging after moving before they can do any repairs.  So you can't just scoot them along with your fleet, constantly repairing anything that gets hit.  Instead, take it to a safe place on the AI planet, deploy it, and then retreat your damaged ships as desired.  These changes help to avoid some of the more exploitative uses of these two ships on offense.

I feel as though me mentioning how I pack MRS's and Leech Starships together and get free fleets may have had something to do with this ><

Regardless, very awesome update! You are after all, the best dev ever.

EDIT:
Quote
This quite obviously could have nothing to do with one of the developers getting roflstomped by a warbird-led battlegroup in a recent test game.

No, of course not! Had nothing to do with it.

Also, looking at the Commands. I had no idea you could turn on the expansions from inside the game! That's going to be immesnely useful when I resume my current MP game, as the person I'm playing with only just now got CoN and LotS.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 02:25:46 am by Echo35 »

Offline Invelios

  • Jr. Member Mark III
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 02:28:56 am »
Quote
I feel as though me mentioning how I pack MRS's and Leech Starships together and get free fleets may have had something to do with this ><

Regardless, very awesome update! You are after all, the best dev ever.

I think they have been planning this change for a little while, so you're probably not to blame. It's probably a good change anyways. old MRS meant you could get your healing as you moved from one guard post to the next, which is a little too OP. Also there where some rather deadly combos, like MRS + SB. If you stacked them, the MRS could start working on one damaged one while the others protected the first, leading to me almost never losing a SB. This new way of using them not only fixes the problems, but also sounds more realistic IMO. A moving ship repairing other ships sounds almost too far-fetched IMO, the fact that they have to stop and "Get Ready" sounds more normal, at least to me it does.

Offline Echo35

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,703
  • More turrets! MORE TURRETS!
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 02:32:42 am »
I think they have been planning this change for a little while, so you're probably not to blame. It's probably a good change anyways. old MRS meant you could get your healing as you moved from one guard post to the next, which is a little too OP. Also there where some rather deadly combos, like MRS + SB. If you stacked them, the MRS could start working on one damaged one while the others protected the first, leading to me almost never losing a SB. This new way of using them not only fixes the problems, but also sounds more realistic IMO. A moving ship repairing other ships sounds almost too far-fetched IMO, the fact that they have to stop and "Get Ready" sounds more normal, at least to me it does.

Well yeah, it was definitely super OP. Often I'd end up with max resources simply because I didn't have to build anything once i had a parasite fleet and MRS's active, I could just go piss off the AI and get a free fleet out of it :P But thankfully that's fixed now, which is a very good thing. Broken games are no fun!

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 03:26:39 am »
In the mean time, I've taken the liberty of mashing something together with my amazing paint and gimp skills..

They uh.. Work.. And look slightly better than light frigates ;)

Basically just a scaled down version of their full size selves, with a hand-pixel-art'd border. I'm sure Chris will come up with something better, and for the rest of them (only frigate through cruiser here, sorry), but it was fun to do :)

edit
duh..

They go in aiwar/runtimedata/expansions/3/galaxyview or something.. The names in the zip should correspond with names in the galaxyview folder. Yes to overwrite etc
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 03:28:32 am by Lancefighter »
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline snrub_guy

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: AI War Beta 4.046, "Megaton," Released!
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 06:03:58 am »
I think they have been planning this change for a little while, so you're probably not to blame. It's probably a good change anyways. old MRS meant you could get your healing as you moved from one guard post to the next, which is a little too OP. Also there where some rather deadly combos, like MRS + SB. If you stacked them, the MRS could start working on one damaged one while the others protected the first, leading to me almost never losing a SB. This new way of using them not only fixes the problems, but also sounds more realistic IMO. A moving ship repairing other ships sounds almost too far-fetched IMO, the fact that they have to stop and "Get Ready" sounds more normal, at least to me it does.

Well yeah, it was definitely super OP. Often I'd end up with max resources simply because I didn't have to build anything once i had a parasite fleet and MRS's active, I could just go piss off the AI and get a free fleet out of it :P But thankfully that's fixed now, which is a very good thing. Broken games are no fun!

Ha, I think you might be able to blame me for the deployable MRS's, although you may have indeed started up the discussion.