Author Topic: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!  (Read 10290 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 07:45:00 am »
Whew. :)
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Offline wyvern83

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 07:53:52 am »
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/11/04/what-new-ai-war-expansion-next-month/

It would seem Light of The Spire has already got its first outside blog mention; Quintin has some nice things to say.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 08:12:52 am »
Yeah, I saw that.  Pretty wicked!
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 08:25:09 am »
This different campaign shift is very interesting. Can lead to spome cool stuff, and I guess even more interest from other kind of players :)
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2010, 08:26:58 am »
Boils it right down to the tower defence elements.

I love tower defence!

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 08:36:55 am »
Yes, normally AI War is a "grand strategic 4X tower defense RTS," as Tom Chick put it.  Well, for quite a long time we've had that optional "cross planet waves" AI modifier that basically gets rid of the tower defense, making it so that you can play "grand strategic 4X RTS" if you prefer.

Now, on the flip side, with the Defender campaign type you can cut out all that grand strategy and 4X, and just have a "tower defense RTS" if you prefer.  Kind of neat. :)
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Offline Inglonias

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 10:11:07 am »
I always get nervous when you announce this many ship types. It certainly can't be easy to balance, and more importantly, its hard for me to keep track of all of them. What do I do about that?

Offline superking

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 10:17:17 am »
I always get nervous when you announce this many ship types. It certainly can't be easy to balance, and more importantly, its hard for me to keep track of all of them. What do I do about that?

+ play with complex ship types disabled in the lobby
+ disable specific types of ship in the lobby
+ play with 'simple ship types only' in the lobby
+ realise that only a small proportion of the ships will appear in any single game, and the length of the game ensures you will gain intimate familiarity with the ship types that do appear
+disable the expansion (which disables ship types unique to that expansion)

although I have to say I 0% understand your attitude.. for me personally, the more new units to discover, the longer the game holds my interest (total annhillation with its eventual support for 3000+ 3rd party units was a stellar example of awesomeness)

Offline superking

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 11:26:05 am »
are the spire going to have any fleetships, or are they heavy gear only?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/11/04/what-new-ai-war-expansion-next-month/

It would seem Light of The Spire has already got its first outside blog mention; Quintin has some nice things to say.

Quote
To lower the tone slightly, I really hope a consequence of this won’t be AI War being included in the actual Child’s Play aid packages. I cannot imagine anything more heartbreaking than some tired, diseased kid eagerly loading up his new videogame and promptly getting brutalised by an angry AI after fighting it for 11 hours. Imagine it. The click of the closing laptop, then silence. The child, he is too tired to cry. So tired…


« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 12:17:02 pm by superking »

Offline Salamander

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 01:10:48 pm »
for me personally, the more new units to discover, the longer the game holds my interest (total annhillation with its eventual support for 3000+ 3rd party units was a stellar example of awesomeness)
Amen to that! Part of what made my old tabletop game I made alive in our old gaming group was I was constantly adding new ships to the mix. One of the reasons I still like SFB after all these years is once they finally added things like the Omega races, they just can't make stuff fast enough and all the new toys keep the game lively. I really love new 'bonus' ships to play with and try to play smaller games just so I can try something else out in a new game.

On the Hunter-Killers: I may just still need to adapt to the situation better, but as I ratchet the difficulty up I'm finding that screening nastier AI worlds that are not worth conquering is becoming untennable when it's multiple egress points. I had one game against a pair of sixes on a 50-concentric that I decided to throw the towel in as even with unlocking and building more turrets than ever, and on top of that unlocking forts for the first time, that I could not hold the 3 systems adjacent to a IV world successfully.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 01:15:32 pm by Salamander »

Offline mavorspam

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 01:27:18 pm »
I have the base AI War game and both expansions installed through Steam. Is it better for you guys if I preorder now through the Arcen site? Also, now that I downloaded the beta it says "Trial Game" at the top right of the game setup screen. and that I only have access to easy AI types. How do I get rid of the trial notification?

Offline @B0FH

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2010, 01:39:37 pm »
I have the base AI War game and both expansions installed through Steam. Is it better for you guys if I preorder now through the Arcen site? Also, now that I downloaded the beta it says "Trial Game" at the top right of the game setup screen. and that I only have access to easy AI types. How do I get rid of the trial notification?

Either disable the (LotS) expansion from the main menu Licenses screen, or better yet buy a key from Arcen and enter it into your game, then re-start the game :)

When LotS hits Steam (presumably) you will be able to enter that key to have it perma-linked to your Steam account

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2010, 01:40:48 pm »
Various notes to recent posts:

- mavorspam, feel free to order from us now, or through Steam when it comes out.  Plenty fine either way with us.  To get rid of the trial notice, just disable the new expansion in your beta.

- Regarding the "100+ new ships" thing, bear in mind that those largely aren't bonus ship classes.  Though, as Guiege (sp?) pointed out, it just wouldn't feel like an expansion without SOME new bonus ship classes, so I'll definitely put in some.  I'd already had an idea for a new frigate-type spire ship, too.

- Generally the spire are just starship-sized things and up, and most of what is new in this expansion will fall along those lines.  Most of the new ships will be guardians and guard posts and other big stuff for the AI, and larger-than-a-starship-but-smaller-than-a-golem  "spirecraft" for the players and minor factions to use.  With some misc other stuff thrown in, but that's the general shape of things.

- Generally speaking, making sure that everything is in perfect balance isn't too big a short-term concern.  Especially with the AI ships, it's more about providing varied and interesting challenges rather than balance.  Or, rather, balance takes the form of "make sure it's not unusually hard or easy to deal with unless that's specifically the intent."  For things like bonus ship types, we have some automated tests that we run that give us oodles of data on that, which lets us hit pretty close to the mark pretty quickly, and then it's refined over time with the help of players.

- The balance of the game is pretty much ALWAYS in flux, because we're always adding new stuff or tweaking the balance of existing ships based on player reports, etc.  It's like trying to balance the largest math or chemistry equation you ever saw, and our job is to keep the "remainder" of that as small as possible.  There's no way we'd ever have zero remainder unless we stopped updating the game (even the venerated Starcraft, which largely didn't get any major free content updates, was still getting balance tweaks 8 years after release).  At any rate, so our goal is to keep the balance as clean as possible, and to fix any major exploits or ships-that-become-uselessly-weak as soon as we find those.

- For comparison, the entire game with all of the pre-LotS expansions now has close to 700 ships, I think.  So we're talking about adding about another 1/8th to that.  So it's not likely completely overhauling the entire game, it's more about augmentation.  But, as with something like Defender mode, some of these augmentations will definitely make for wildly new player activities and "games within the overall game," both of which are an important goal for any expansion we do.

- And, to be clear, it's totally about quality over quantity.  The reason for the quantity is to provide variety, both between planets in a given game, and between campaigns in general.  With a game that is partially about space exploration, I feel like having a lot to discover really helps sell me on the idea that I'm really a starfarer.  It always makes the world seem to shrink when I know everything that's out there in a space game.

Anyway, a release will be coming in a couple of hours.  I'd hoped to do one earlier today, but wound up making a doctor visit for my son instead.  He's okay, it's nothing serious, but did need attention.
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Offline mavorspam

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2010, 01:46:42 pm »
Ok Chris I'll preorder through the Arcen site. I think whats makes AI War so interesting is the amount of content, so please keep it comin. Games today are so obsessed with balance that it's taking alot of the fun out of them. Really looking foward to LOS.

Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 4.028 -- The First Light of the Spire Beta -- Released!
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 01:48:56 pm »
Thanks!  And I definitely will keep it coming, I agree on the balance thing.  What sucks is when people find a "killer combo" that beats everything else, and I think that's led to the recent balance obsession, but we're able to combat that without limiting functionality.  It helps that this is not a PVP game, of course, but even so I think we could manage that in a PVP context if we had to.
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