AI War Beta 3.906 Released!

[Giegue]

I think most of the ships in general need a re-balance. like orzelek mentioned, the bomber starships, the tanks, people have been mentioning the armor ships for awhile. I'm sure alot of the original bonus ships need tuneups like that.

[quickstix]

- bomber starship is now pretty much superseded by siege starship - it may need new role now

I was thinking the same to myself last night. I think because Bomber Starships have only been available in fabricators they've never really been thoroughly balanced. Sieges are slow, fragile and strong against large single targets whilst Bombers are faster, tougher and somewhat powerful against single targets. But then where does that sit within the raid and fleet lines? Hmm.

I'd agree with the balancing talk. I saw Vampires for the first time last night and was surprised at what just one could do. Even though it was a mark 4, I was surprised that not only did a single one destroy two reactors and a number of manufactories, but it soaked up quite a lot of firepower before it died.

[wyvern83]

I think the Bomber Starship is fine as it is.

Bombers are faster, tougher and somewhat powerful against single targets.

I use the Bomber Starship as part of the vanguard of my blob where my fast/close-range fleetships are for this very reason.

Because of their shorter range and the fact they are next to the same targets means they will be focusing on the same general vicinity, unlike Siege Starships which may be focusing on different targets in the system.  This is nice for when you dive into Hybrid Hive Clouds head first with the faster part of your blob; I know at least the Bomber starships are going to notice the Hives if the Sieges are busy shooting necessary high profile targets else where.  (I prefer to macro my fleet blobs as a whole rather than in parts)

This applies in reverse as well, Siege Starships are great for shooting things like Flak or Artillery Guardians while the rest of your fleet is busy because they tend to be in the back and they have the range to reach them while the guardians are closing in.

So I feel they have different roles despite their similarities; you'll find both in roughly equal numbers in any fleet I make.

[Lancefighter]

I see siege starships as a suppressive force, your cannon - they suppress hostile movement without their range.. mostly by blowing guardians and the like to bits
Bomber starship, on the other hand, are more like the cavalry - they go somewhere, and do something.. but try not to get caught in a large scale infantry movement.
The rest of them (fleet, riot mostly, plus support fleet units) are your infantry. They do stuff.

[Giegue]

um... no. the cavalry would be the scout starship/ cloaked starship.

[x4000]

um... no. the cavalry would be the scout starship/ cloaked starship.

Um, no.

[keith.lamothe]

The reference sheet should no longer cause as much in the way of music skip, in the next version; I had coded it to not refresh every frame, but I had left out a couple key lines to actually make that work

[Lancefighter]

um... no. the cavalry would be the scout starship/ cloaked starship.

scout starships lack guns, last i checked 
but I do bring cloaker starships with my groups, but mainly because I need the countersniper fire at the moment (ai invented sentinel frigates early)

[Mánagarmr]

Fox and I did a game just now, he found a bug that will go into the tracker no doubt, but the game is starting to feel like 3.0+ now.    In terms of bugginess/balance etc. 

So you guys are definitely getting there

King

Except it wasn't a bug. Just me failing at reading comprehension

[superking]

one way to differentiate the bomber starship might be to buff up its armour

[orzelek]

About the bomber starship - what I meant was basically dps.... currently siege has larger and bomber starship is up close and personal so it should have something to balance - it could be survivability also. Currently both raider starship and bomber starship felt very fragile when trying to raid AI Coprocessor (none made to destination point but maybe I wanted to much )

[quickstix]

If I remember rightly, the Mk1 Bomber Starship has a reload of 18 seconds, compared to the Mk1 Siege of 8 seconds. So I don't know what to think about the bomber starship as it sits between the other specialised starships, most notably in comparison to the Siege. My 2 cents.

[Mánagarmr]

Chris, you wanted feedback on the waves: Personally I feel they are still completely insignificant. Even with the starships added in, they aren't enough to make a dent in a system, even with mediocre defenses. I'd say bump it up to x5 and we might start to talk.

Me and King have been playing a couple of hours in our current two games and waves are simply a no-issue anywhere. (This is on diff 7.6 with AIP of about 330.)

[quickstix]

I think I agree with this. After dealing with a 2000 youngling wave and 100+ regular ships in my previous 3.189 game (at the 3 hour mark) it was a bit of a shock to see waves of 10-20 ships. Another buff should do the trick.

[Mánagarmr]

Also, you might consider dropping starships in waves completely for lower difficulties, as these are excessively hard to deal with for a player that is not accustomed to the game yet. Especially if they are raid or leech type starships.