Author Topic: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released  (Read 8311 times)

Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 04:51:45 am »
quite a change, I must say. Will be interesting to try out.
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Offline superking

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 06:18:40 am »
no more AI turrets! horay!  ;D now to crack out the blade units! and the botnet golem! and the zenith mirror! and the lightning shuttles! and the...

hell, its like a whole new game, again! I feel like I should be paying for this...

(incidently, it would be cool if units with blade immunities were reviewed at some point as its pretty inconsistent atm: starships, buildings... some are blade immune and some are not)

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 08:52:33 am »
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All mercenary ships (except the Mercenary Enclave Starship) are now equivalent to MkIV ships (instead of MkII). They cost 10x the metal and crystal of their normal MkIV counterparts.
DERP! That's is going to hurt :D But it's probably a wise desicion as Mercenaries get progressively worse for their cost the further the game goes on (and at the same time, their need increases).

So far, these are excellent changes all around! Gonna take a bit to get used to though.

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AI's no longer use any form of turrets, and any turrets that the AIs did have are now removed from old savegames (including turret remains). This includes sniper turrets, spider turrets, tractor beams, the works.
Larger-form AI-only replacements for some of the more notably types of turrets will see a resurgence, but they will be easier to see (and thus to strategize against). This will also have a positive performance impact, with fewer AI units doing the job of a larger number of older turrets.
The emphasis is instead on letting the AIs make use of their ship caps with mobile ships that actually pose a natural form of counterattack risk to players (and which are more interesting, anyway, in the hands of the AI).
This sounds awesome, and apparently you think so too, because this note appears twice in line in the release notes.  ;)

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Decoy drones are now capped at 4 per planet for the AI, and speed boosters are now capped at 10 per planet for the AI. Decloakers and tachyon drones are now capped at 4 and 2 per planet for the A (and the ship caps for the human players have also been reduced to those levels from 10 and 10).
Err..what? The bolded part in particular doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 08:55:37 am by Moonshine Fox »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2010, 09:05:10 am »
Warning: Siege starships just lost a LOT of their role. Blowing up turrets isnt exactly useful when the AI doesnt use turrets!
Well, remember those guardian units that Chris said are coming?  They're basically starship-ish (if I understood him correctly), so I think those Siege Starships will have hours of fun remodeling their deck plans :)  But thanks for letting us know about the temporarily bored Sieges.  Bored + Siege = Random Property Damage ;)

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It is by design that the shipcap modifiers have no effect on starships?
Yep, the new "UsesScaledShipCaps" flag was actually applied pretty selectively, and types that don't have that aren't affected by that dropdown at all.

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I suppose it makes sense, but it makes starships more powerful when there is a lower shipcap: you can boost them all easier. Also, cloaking superboost is more effective for lower numbers. Oh yeah, and theres less overkill, i believe in theory.
Yea, the boosting behaviors become more useful, I'll be fixing that to be less different, soon (basically by multiplying the "chunk" each of the scaled ships takes out of the booster's capacity).  And yes, less overkill, but I think that's ok as a mild balance difference between the scales.  We'll probably have to do something about the younglings though, as they were already being thrashed by fortresses (which don't use scaling) and will presumably still die in one fortress-missile even on 4x health.

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How does it effect cluster penalties (ie: are 2 sentinel frigates at normal doing the same as 2 sentinel frigates on high?) (what about autocannon minipods? their swarm bonus.. )
Basically it doesn't, but it should, thanks for pointing that out.  There's going to be a fair number of these stats that we miss, so thanks for letting us know.  Anyway, sentinel frigates don't actually scale at all, they already had a tiny-tiny ship cap.  But the autocannon minipods certainly scale, and currently scaling them down is a big nerf to the cluster bonuses.  I'll be making the scaling impact those.
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Offline mlaskus

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 09:28:49 am »
The new changes sound great, shame I won't be able to play any time soon.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2010, 09:31:01 am »
The new changes sound great, shame I won't be able to play any time soon.
By the looks of the bugs coming into the tracker (gems like "can't build command stations"), this particular version would be a little rocky anyway ;)

But I hope the schedule clears up for you, at least by 4.0 :)
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Offline Thumpy

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2010, 11:14:55 am »
great beta! love the way this game is shaping up to become a cult game for years to come. when 4.0 is released you might as well release it as AI War 2. it feels THAT much different (and better) to when i purchased. i know that practically doesn't make sense. but i feel you guys don't get enough credit on the work you are doing. and it really sucks that your company is in financial trouble. my only contribution for the moment is purchasing the CON expansion and spreading the word. i feel ort of robbing you guys for the countless hours of fun i spent on this game.

anyway, the changes on the turret sound very good. and for an old aesthetic person like, it will make the game look much more tidy, too.

btw. is there any kind of newbie-asks-questions thread? could not find one and i feel bad for starting a separate thread. but is it actually
possible to move military units around from the galaxy map. i know i can go and locate them, but to move them from planet
to planet, i have to go to planet view, select them, then head to the galaxy map and send them where i please. sometimes
it'd be nice to do just that from the galaxy map. or am i completely doing something wrong?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2010, 11:18:45 am »
btw. is there any kind of newbie-asks-questions thread? could not find one and i feel bad for starting a separate thread. but is it actually
possible to move military units around from the galaxy map. i know i can go and locate them, but to move them from planet
to planet, i have to go to planet view, select them, then head to the galaxy map and send them where i please. sometimes
it'd be nice to do just that from the galaxy map. or am i completely doing something wrong?
The interface is very much designed for commands to stuff on one planet (the current one), but I believe you can select control groups from the galaxy map (using the number keys, by default) and right click planets to give them a move order.

Also, if you have find mode active, I believe right clicking a planet will give all the ships lasso'd in the "find" an order to move there.
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2010, 12:36:47 pm »
Gave it a test, nice with the turrets. I take we will see more regular fleet units for the AI (with the awesome AI that controls them) then? :)

What are the plans for the beam turrets now? Stay the same?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2010, 12:37:34 pm »
Yea, the heavy beam cannons are exempt from the unit scaling since there really aren't that many to begin with.
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Offline x4000

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2010, 12:37:59 pm »
Gave it a test, nice with the turrets. I take we will see more regular fleet units for the AI (with the awesome AI that controls them) then? :)

Indeed.  And some new mid-size ships, most of which will be moble.

What are the plans for the beam turrets now? Stay the same?

Haven't decided yet.  Feedback welcome.
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Offline Sizzle

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2010, 12:43:42 pm »
Yea, the heavy beam cannons are exempt from the unit scaling since there really aren't that many to begin with.

So the HBC's do the same damage but the units have 2x - 4x the hitpoints?   Seems like HBC's will scale in 'worthwhileness' with the cap size....  or will they scale in damage but not numbers?  /confused

Offline superking

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2010, 12:46:17 pm »
somthing seems a bit off, at difficulty 8 with non-advanced hybrids enabled on one of the AIs, there were 30+ hybrids adjacent to my homeworld in the first 5 minutes... also, I got flattened by the madbombers first wave of 800 ships in the first 10 minutes, while my ship production was way slower with the new higher metal/crystal costs and scaled up stats

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2010, 12:49:19 pm »
So the HBC's do the same damage but the units have 2x - 4x the hitpoints?   Seems like HBC's will scale in 'worthwhileness' with the cap size....  or will they scale in damage but not numbers?  /confused
The HBC stats stay the same.  This shouldn't change the effectiveness of the HBC except in by the secondary effect of it being easier to hit a higher percentage of a low-cap force in one line-blast than if the caps were higher and the group occupying a larger physical volume.

So if an HBC MkWhatever would have vaporized 7 fighters on a line, and you're playing on Low (1/4 caps) and it hits 2 fighters, it will kill 1 of them and take the other to 1/4 health.  Of course, that's not identical balance, but it's not very far off either.
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 3.707, "The Sledge Hammer," Released
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2010, 01:10:45 pm »
Gave it a test, nice with the turrets. I take we will see more regular fleet units for the AI (with the awesome AI that controls them) then? :)

Indeed.  And some new mid-size ships, most of which will be moble.

What are the plans for the beam turrets now? Stay the same?

Haven't decided yet.  Feedback welcome.

The HBC cap limit is ok I guess, and I guess the damage is ok as well really. Nothing changed the old turrets except combining 5 of them into 1 when I think about it :)
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