Poll

Is giving the AI lots of tools that can abuse mechanics that human players get no way to use a good design path?

NO! Go back to the 3.0 way of very few mechanics the AI gets for defense that the humans cannot get.
I don't like it, but I can live with it.
I don't care either way.
It's okay, it adds variety.
YES, it really helps the feel of humans having a substantial technological disadvantage that the narrative describes.

Author Topic: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.  (Read 3255 times)

Offline Arcain_One

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 10:42:16 pm »


Do pardon, I did misunderstand your intent, though I do not agree that when discussing exclusive mechanics we should also include exclusive units.


I'm confused. This thread is supposed to be about AI-only mechanics and not AI-only units. Are you saying that this is or isn't useful line of inquiry?

I'm saying that in my opinion they arn't exclusive to themselves, if that made any sense.

On the other hand, this thread is quite useful to point out what does and does not work.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
In general, the level of complaining is driving Developer-Progress up and we're considering launching a wave ;)

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011, 10:57:11 pm »
An AI exclusive unit is just an AI exclusive mechanic with a motor on it. Every AI exclusive ability is ostensibly tied to some unit. Core shield generators, Eyes, warp gates, what have you. I can't think of anything the AI has that we don't that isn't represented in game by some specific thing. But the point is really just semantic any way.

Offline Sunshine!

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2011, 11:13:50 pm »
External invincibility is a bit of a hack-job in that it's not an elegant solution, but it works for the purpose it's designed for (preventing running in and nuking the core command, or blobbing the AI eye). 

Guardians are amazing because, among other variety, they've allowed for turrets to be balanced for the player's needs, rather than trying to balance them to make them not impossible to deal with when the AI has them as well.  And, from my experiences facing the upgraded 4.0 turrets while the Hybrids were still glitching and building turrets, that would NOT have been a fun experience.  Guardians also provide some interesting oomph to AI counterattacks - in 3.0 I used to run in, spank the command center, and run out, because I knew there wasn't going to be anything in the way of serious reprisal.  Guardians, with the new AI waiting/coordination of threat behaviors, now allows for the AI to have some teeth in responding to player actions, not just in launching waves.

AI Eyes are, again, not an elegant solution, but they pose an interesting puzzle that I am happy to work with.

AI Core Shield gens I do not use, because the mechanic was poorly implemented and has no use to me because I've never been one of the super low-AIP deep strike players.  Forcing the player to destroy each one individually, rather than having switch-on-planet-capture to allow for scrapping is a nuisance, and keeping track of another 25 objects that NEED to be dealt with is a pain (and yes, you do need to keep track of all of them, because for the C, D, and E generators, which aren't linked to any "benefits", it takes careful consideration to know which planet in specific, of each, is going to be the best to advance your goals). 

Varying AI guard posts and core guard posts means nothing to me - the guard posts are either not threatening enough, or not varying enough (the exceptions are Spire Shield Gens, Counterwave Posts, Command Shield Posts, and Core Neinzul Spawner Posts) for me to really care about whether a post is a core electric, or a missile, MLRS or Arachnid, or whatever.  Even the Core guard posts are quite easy to kill and do not pose any significant threat.

Offline snrub_guy

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011, 06:12:52 am »
-[unseen] core starships

Has anyone actually ever seen the AI use a core starship?

Yep. As a matter of fact there was one in the attack that destroyed all my hopes and dreams last time I played.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2011, 08:00:27 am »
This is a bit like asking if we think it's a good idea for StarCraft to have three significantly distinct races meticulously balanced against one another; which is to say, it's just about the single most important USP of the game!

I'm not trying to be glib, incidentally - just reflecting on the inevitable outcome of the poll!

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI getting mechanics to defend that the humans cannot get.
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2011, 10:44:09 pm »
Locking this poll.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the results. I knew that the yeses would win, but I didn't anticipate by this much. In fact, there was only one down vote, and it was a "I can live with it" vote.

Some good discussion too, though I realized that I needed to clarify what I mean by the difference between mechanics and units.

So, keep up the good work. Quite clearly, we, the community, like your efforts.