Confused by AI Spire Leader

[Nibelung44]

Hi,

I made sure to capture the 2 planets holding each a Spire Leader before the 2:00 mark, but at 1:59:55 the ten leaders gave +1 AIP to AI! Why the 2 I had under control did not give -3 instead?

Is it something I don't get, like 'must have under control since x mn' or a bug?

[Tridus]

If you capture the Spire Civilian Leader, it'll immediately give you -3 AIP when you capture it. It then starts its own 1 hour timer, and every hour from there it gives another -3.

You should have gotten eight +1 messages, and you'll get two -3 messages sometime after that (1 hour after you captured each one).

[ZaneWolfe]

If you just kill the AI Command station but DON'T take the planet, then it will remain on the same timer as the others still on AI owned worlds. What I typically do is just kill the command station but dont bother taking the planet unless its within my space, as the AI will NOT target them unless you actually have taken ownership of the planet, even though they will give you the -3 AIP every time the others give you +1 AIP. As it stands this is not considered a bug, but a rather neat feature of them.

[LaughingThesaurus]

And part of the reason why it's a feature is just because of how many implications there are to simply destroying a command station without taking the planet. You gain 20 AIP, and no knowledge or anything on that planet.

[Arkillion]

They still reduce the AIP even if you don't take the planet ?? Wow I didn't know that... would have made my Spire leader game less painfull.. xD
But it seems quite weird since normally the longer your game is the harder it gets but with that it can reduce AIP over time for.. free ?

[Draco18s]

They still reduce the AIP even if you don't take the planet ??

Yes, yes they do.
It is of my opinion that claiming the planet means you're Doing It Wrong.

But it seems quite weird since normally the longer your game is the harder it gets but with that it can reduce AIP over time for.. free ?

There is still an AIP floor.

[Arkillion]

I tought they were supposed to make the game harder lol, not it's an hadicap ( a huge one ) for the player.
I've been doing it wrong xD

[Tridus]

And part of the reason why it's a feature is just because of how many implications there are to simply destroying a command station without taking the planet. You gain 20 AIP, and no knowledge or anything on that planet.

Unless you have the planet in supply from another planet, then you just send a science lab over and get the knowledge anyway.

I consider it a bug because the (non-Chivalric) AI shouldn't still think it controls a building it doesn't actually control.

[Draco18s]

I tought they were supposed to make the game harder lol, not it's an hadicap ( a huge one ) for the player.
I've been doing it wrong xD

Correction: it makes the early game harder.  And very rapidly.  10 AIP an hour is a LOT.

[Arkillion]

Depend on what style you play , I don't think ultra low AIP game use Spire Leaders

[ZaneWolfe]

Its a feature because to free all 10 Spire Leaders costs you 200 AIP. It would take 7 hours at -30 AIP per hour to START to make up for how much AIP it costs to free them. And the AIP floor is still raised by destroying those 10 AI command stations. And since they are scattered all over the galaxy and are rarely close to each other you are very likely to have to deepstrike to get all of them and I have seen them spawn within 1-2 jumps from AI Core Worlds. Can they be cheesed? Yes. But its a LONG, SLOW process to do that. And all the while exos and cpas are charging up while you wait to only take 3 AI worlds every 2 hours. And this is not factoring in that you gain 10 AIP per hour while they remain active, and you have to kill at least 3 to start causing them to gain -AIP, and it still raises the floor even if the effective AIP is going down.

[Cyborg]

This is one of those mechanics that looks like it's going to save you AIP, but it really ends up burning you in the long run.

- You will have to take planets that you really don't want to take. You will need to deep strike. +AIP.
- You will push the AIP higher in the near-term, which will allow the AI to get tech unlocks that can't be undone even after the effective AIP gets lowered.
- The AIP floor will be raised.

That being said, I still turn them on for a challenge once in a while. For some of us, it's not about creating the easiest path to the finish line, but what cool things you can do along the way.

[LaughingThesaurus]

And part of the reason why it's a feature is just because of how many implications there are to simply destroying a command station without taking the planet. You gain 20 AIP, and no knowledge or anything on that planet.

Unless you have the planet in supply from another planet, then you just send a science lab over and get the knowledge anyway.

I consider it a bug because the (non-Chivalric) AI shouldn't still think it controls a building it doesn't actually control.

It makes any other capturables in that system uncapturable... unless you are ready to risk losing that civ leader. I'm also with Cyborg as well. You can't undo the AI's tech unlocks, you raise the floor, and you have to spend 7 hours before you even begin to gain benefit. Sure, the benefit's great, but you have to spend 7 hours to get it. More to the point, you have to actually survive those 7 hours... ...and, I do wonder, how often does it actually cost you more AIP due to the AIP floor increasing, in a situation like this? What if you captured 10 planets that you would normally have ignored because there were no other capturables? How much does that raise the AIP floor? How much does auto-progress raise the floor while you sit around waiting for the civ leaders to tick over enough to help you out? Was it really worth all of that trouble to get to that point, all said and done?

Now, all of that said, I don't think it's all that gamebreaking. I do think it kind of makes some sense, but not really all that much. The AI still 'thinks it owns it' when it clearly does not. There should be some official christening of it as a feature, a note or something in the tooltip for the civ leader minor faction as well as for the civ leaders themselves. While we're at it, that capability can be weakened a little bit.

"Expressly liberating the civilians of the AI will result in an immediate -3 AIP change and will let the AI know that the civilian leaders are directly working with you (so they're 'officially on your side' then). If you simply free them of the AI's iron grip, they'll slowly and quietly subvert the AI as retribution, by -2 every hour instead."