Author Topic: A twig snaps  (Read 4413 times)

Offline Fleet

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A twig snaps
« on: April 19, 2011, 09:55:27 pm »
and crickets are heard chirping in the distance...

Offline TechSY730

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 10:00:26 pm »
If a non-sequitur post is made, and no one is around to read it, is it considered spam?

Offline Orelius

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 10:16:31 pm »
Yes.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 08:22:32 am »
Spam? *Deploys nukes*
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Offline Echo35

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 09:33:25 am »
Spam? *Deploys nukes*

Hey, so I have these beads to sell you...

Offline TechSY730

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 10:45:34 am »
Spam? *Deploys nukes*

Nothing less than a Mk. II nuke can take care of the spam problem, though to be absolutely sure, you better get a Mk. III nuke in there. :D



Anyways, glad to see you back Keith. Glad you're feeling better (or at least good enough to post here). That sneaky AI will have to find some other way to keep you down now.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 11:08:24 am »
I'm doing alright, but cold + 2 kids + 2 jobs, etc is definitely a lot ;)  But I think I'm over the cold now.  Now it's more a matter of getting a handle on sleep pattern.

Looking at the top five on the mantis vote totals ( http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/plugin.php?page=GaugeSupport%2Fissue_ranking ) I'm seeing:


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New Planet Types - Examples.

Chris and I agree it'd be great to do more stuff like that, but it's definitely for an expansion, not free DLC.


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Key binding to override global auto-FRD

Well, I don't want to go the route of immunity-to-the-immunity-to-the-immunity-to-, even metaphorically with interface elements.  But Chris and I talked about a "Hold Position" order that has been requested elsewhere before too, and we think that should address the bulk of this need.


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New Map Style: Clusters

Definitely a cool idea, but for an expansion as with all new map types.


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_______ filter

I've been avoiding things like that partly because textboxes suck.  But I'm enough a SQL nerd to like writing the C# equivalent of "WHERE NAME LIKE '%blahblah%'" ;)  So that should be doable.


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New Unit Suggestion: Military Builder

A very neat idea, imo.  Though really doing it right (and balanced) would amount to a "reinvention" type effort that we're trying to avoid for the near future for everyone's sake.


Of course, vote tallies aside, Chris keeps seeming to think that we need to burn down the list of bugs ;)  Bugs, bah.  One of the thing I wonder about with the vote tallies is if they're accurately reflecting "this is really what we want you to do next" or just "these are the features we want most".  I.E. that people don't really think to vote up bug reports to emphasize their importance.
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Offline x4000

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 11:15:02 am »
I.E. that people don't really think to vote up bug reports to emphasize their importance.

I definitely agree with that.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 11:23:31 am »
I.E. that people don't really think to vote up bug reports to emphasize their importance.

I definitely agree with that.

Well, should we? It seems that the severity of the bug makes a better indicator of what we want fixed first. Bugs are very rarely contested, so they don't attract a lot of votes either way. Potential new features are much more debatable, and as such, attract more attention and votes.

So if you are looking for bug fixes, I guess start looking at the severity. It seems that most people understand how to responsibly set the severity rating.


Just, for confirmation, this is my understanding of the severity scales.

None: Not really an issue, but just something put in as a note or whatever
Text: Simple typo or missing text that does not really impact gameplay
Minor: Normal bugs, things that don't really impact things greatly, or at least not very often (note, typos that impact gameplay due to it giving mis-information also fit here)
Major: Something that occurs moderately often, and can really hurt game-play or balance when it strikes.
Crash: Basically, the name. If the bug causes a crash or causes a desync.
Blocking: This bug makes the game unplayable, literally. As in, this bug is so big that you better fix it in the next few hours big. Thankfully, VERY rare. (Though bugs that render critical features unusable, like saving, can also fit here)

Let me know if something seems off with this summary.

EDIT: Oh dang, I missed some.

Feature: A new proposed feature, but not an issue
Trivial: Dumb little thing that shouldn't be hard to fix, and doesn't impact gameplay much at all
Tweak: Something that shouldn't be hard to fix, but can impact gameplay noticeably (like bonus multipliers)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 11:29:58 am by techsy730 »

Offline x4000

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 11:35:19 am »
I almost completely ignore the severity, because it's pretty much irrelevant.  Many of the most important bugs people leave as minor, and some of the least important bugs some folks mark as high importance because they want to force whatever their agenda is.

More to the point, only a single person (the submitter) can set the severity of bugs.  When we're trying to go through a list of hundreds of items, what individual people think about specific items is not that helpful, because obviously each thing was important enough to be submitted in the first place.  What we're looking for that we don't really have at the moment is things that are important to many people.  If a bug is affecting you and you feel strongly about it, feel free to vote it up, as that brings it more to our attention than anything else.

To your confirmation on severities:

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None: Not really an issue, but just something put in as a note or whatever

Yeah, this one is kind of meaningless, really.

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Text: Simple typo or missing text that does not really impact gameplay

Yep, exactly.  People are pretty good about that.

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Minor: Normal bugs, things that don't really impact things greatly, or at least not very often (note, typos that impact gameplay due to it giving mis-information also fit here)

Yeah, pretty much, but  also people just put whatever in minor.

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Major: Something that occurs moderately often, and can really hurt game-play or balance when it strikes.

"Moderately often" is meaningless, though.  Maybe it happens very often in one specific save, but nobody else has ever seen it, ever.  That's why group feedback is so important, versus one person.

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Crash: Basically, the name. If the bug causes a crash or causes a desync.

Yes, and we do take these particularly seriously, but not because of the severity that's set.  We scan each bug report that comes in, more or less as they come in, and the ones that are super high priority things we look at quickly.  Many of the crashes that are reported are actually bad installs or something, so they wind up going through a feedback cycle and then getting closed.

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Blocking: This bug makes the game unplayable, literally. As in, this bug is so big that you better fix it in the next few hours bug. Thankfully, VERY rare.

People are very bad at determining what is a blocking issue, I've found.  People put all sorts of things as blocking that are not really.  As in "this balance item is off, and it's making my specific campaign too difficult until you fix this."  Another good example of why I mostly ignore severity, but why aggregate voting is helpful.  When blade spawners are a problem for a lot of people, we take that really seriously.  When one person is having some trouble with blade spawners in their specific campaign, that's not all that meaningful without more data or a specific save, because they could have just bad luck of their opposing ships, or playing the strategy against them wrong, or whatever.

See what I mean?  We have to filter an enormous amount of stuff, and the aggregate voting helps us do so.  That's all I'm saying.  More accurate severity settings would be great, but you can't train the random people who show up and make just a single bug report or two with them marked as blocking.  And there are plenty of minor issues that actually are more serious when you look at how many people they are affecting.  So it kind of cuts both ways.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 11:41:59 am »
Thanks. And in my edit of my previous post, I addressed the three severities I missed. Except for feature severity, these are even harder to figure out, as they require some judgement of how much code would need to be refactored to fix them (both trivial and tweak sort of imply easy to fix, though trivial could also mean a mere annoyance), and unless you have the code in front of you (which of course we don't :P), that is kind of hard to determine.

So, thanks for the advice. I'll start voting up on bugs that I think are the most important.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 11:44:06 am by techsy730 »

Offline x4000

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 11:44:25 am »
All good.  But yeah, that's where my thinking comes from.  We're looking for what people in general are worried about, and we balance that internally against how much time we have and how much time it will take.  The only things we can really get from anyone other than Keith or I is what actually is a problem, and how worried people in general about those two things.  Right now we have excellent data on the first, but not so much on the second.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 11:59:38 am »
Yea, severity only tells us about the opinion of that one person.  Now, there are certain reporters that I know have a good track record of not saying "major" unless it really is and I pay attention to that, but generally I just ignore it because some people put major when the issue really annoys them in a very particular case (like some niche automation command not doing exactly what they want).

But if 30 players ALL think it's "major" (by voting it up) then I want to deal with it pretty much immediately.  Not just that they all agree it's a bug, that's not the point (though if there is dispute on that, that matters, but it's rare).  It really helps to be able to prioritize things since some bugs really don't matter while others break the game experience in a wide set of cases.
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Offline ledshok

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 04:54:22 pm »
Of course, vote tallies aside, Chris keeps seeming to think that we need to burn down the list of bugs ;)
Well, if you're asking what bugs we'd like seen fixed as a priority the only ones that I've encountered recently are those classified as "speed-boost affecting group move" (seems there are a few duplicates/related items):

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=3087
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2765
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2755
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2583

And no, I didn't vote them up on Mantis. Yes, I'm part of the problem. ;)

Offline Otagan

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Re: A twig snaps
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 06:55:11 pm »
I'm accustomed to seeing threads with a specific purpose derail and venture off into randomness.  It is considerably less common for a thread with no purpose to assign itself one.
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